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dswo

David Wilson-Okamura
Veteran
Member Since: Jan 2004
1230 posts


Posted on:
Feb 2, 2006, 10:58 PM

Post #1 of 26 (1059 views)
Shortcut   |  Private Reply

New Alps mesh (38m) Not logged in -   Reply 
Free on AVSIM:

Alps LOD10 Topo Mesh - Switzerland and France
http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004scen&DLID=80801

Yet another terrain mesh package of the European Alps? Well, this one is different in that it is NOT primarily based on the Shuttle Radar (SRTM) data with their incomplete coverage of prominent peaks and ridges. Instead, most of the source data for this project were developed over many months by Jonathan de Ferranti using detailed topographic maps. While Jonathan's work is unrelated to flight simulation he kindly gave me permission to compile his data for use in FS. The result is a wonderful improvement in detail and accuracy over any existing SRTM- or DTED-based mesh file, freeware or commercial (a link to an extensive set of screenshot comparisons is included in the read-me file). I've compiled the source data at LOD10 (38-m) grid resolution because the coverage area is smaller than most existing mesh files. Thus, anyone can use these files without having to first uninstall their current mesh set. Also included are LOD9 and LO8 buffer mesh files. Note: if you own Switzerland Professional with its high-resolution terrain mesh then you don't need this package, at least not the Switzerland files!

Filename: alpsw_fe.zip
License: Freeware, limited distribution
Added: 3rd February 2006
Downloads: 100
Author: Holger Sandmann and Jonathan de Ferranti
Size: 51234kb

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Wilson-Okamura (N26TC on VATSIM)
Flight Simulator Tour of Japan http://www.virgil.org/dswo/fs/japantour
More Places to Fly http://virgil.org/...antour/moreideas.htm


"Quilljar"

Usenet Poster
wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk
Posted on:
Feb 3, 2006, 7:49 AM

Post #2 of 26 (1057 views)
Shortcut  

Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to dswo] Not logged in -   Reply 
Installed and looks good so far David. I forgot that I still had VOZ
enabled, and so it took a long time to load. However Switzerland looks MUCH
better than default with VOZ textures and landclass!

Quilljar

Never trust anybody who is too sophisticated to own a rubber chicken.




"Ibby \(The Artist Formerly Known as Chris\)"

Usenet Poster
donotemailme@nothere.com
Posted on:
Feb 3, 2006, 7:55 AM

Post #3 of 26 (1057 views)
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Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to "Quilljar"] Not logged in -   Reply 
Whole new world having textures from wrong region!

--
Ibby (The artist formerly known as Chris)



However Switzerland looks MUCH
> better than default with VOZ textures and landclass!
>
> Quilljar
>
> Never trust anybody who is too sophisticated to own a rubber chicken.
>




Gregory

Usenet Poster
flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net
Posted on:
Feb 3, 2006, 9:42 AM

Post #4 of 26 (1056 views)
Shortcut  

Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to dswo] Not logged in -   Reply 
On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 21:59:03 -0600, David Wilson-Okamura <David
Wilson-Okamura@forums.simradar.com> brought the following to our:


Yep.. got it a couple hours before your post. We must have seen it at
nearly the same time. Haven't installed yet. Too busy in the Seattle/
Mt Rainier region. Is there an Alps MAP which shows the extent of
mesh coverage? Haven't looked [in there] thoroughly as yet.

-G'

btw.. have y'all tried out the `batch CRC and Unzip´ functions? i.e.
CMD line? Makes it easy and fun to unpack LOTS of mesh files!! Smile

>Free on AVSIM:
>
>Alps LOD10 Topo Mesh - Switzerland and France
>http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004scen&DLID=80801
>
>Yet another terrain mesh package of the European Alps? Well, this one
>is different in that it is NOT primarily based on the Shuttle Radar
>(SRTM) data with their incomplete coverage of prominent peaks and
>ridges. Instead, most of the source data for this project were
>developed over many months by Jonathan de Ferranti using detailed
>topographic maps. While Jonathan's work is unrelated to flight
>simulation he kindly gave me permission to compile his data for use in
>FS. The result is a wonderful improvement in detail and accuracy over
>any existing SRTM- or DTED-based mesh file, freeware or commercial (a
>link to an extensive set of screenshot comparisons is included in the
>read-me file). I've compiled the source data at LOD10 (38-m) grid
>resolution because the coverage area is smaller than most existing mesh
>files. Thus, anyone can use these files without having to first
>uninstall their current mesh set. Also included are LOD9 and LO8 buffer
>mesh files. Note: if you own Switzerland Professional with its
>high-resolution terrain mesh then you don't need this package, at least
>not the Switzerland files!
>
>Filename: alpsw_fe.zip
>License: Freeware, limited distribution
>Added: 3rd February 2006
>Downloads: 100
>Author: Holger Sandmann and Jonathan de Ferranti
>Size: 51234kb
>
>



"Oskar Wagner"

Usenet Poster
rengaw@swissonline.ch
Posted on:
Feb 3, 2006, 10:15 AM

Post #5 of 26 (1056 views)
Shortcut  

Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to Gregory] Not logged in -   Reply 
Yes, there is a map showing coverage of each of the mesh parts. I have
installed and checked around a bit. I can't find any improvement over the
freeware Swiss-Austria (LOD9) mesh. Furthermore the new mesh ends at E009°
50' leaving one of the most beautiful valleys of Switzerland - the Engadin
valley with its famous Samedan Alpine Airport - outside.

Apparently this LOD10 mesh has been created using initally 3arcsec data
(90m) maybe with some manual refinements however - as mentioned above -
there's no noticeable improvement against the Swiss-Austria besides the fact
that it also covers parts of the French Alps. There are in fact three files
covering Swiss Alps East, Swiss Alps West and French Alps. So you can still
decide which part o use and which not.

I have also playes around a bit with the (apparently) LOD11 mesh supplied by
SwitzerlandPro. Accuracy is really impressive however there's another
unwanted side effect showing up if you try using it with common landclass.
Even flat portions are extremely "uneven", city and forest areas are
elevated, reflecting elevation data by houses and trees. Using original
phototiles of SwitzerlandPro will reduce the effect to a more or less
desireable value as the cities and forest of course show up at the proper
places. With usual landclass however the suface is just getting too bumpy
with all the negative effects of MS standard landclass tiling.. Smile)
--
Oskar Wagner
(retired Captain)

Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....

"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:5iq6u19plidghho544216glsdp28vf0b86@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 21:59:03 -0600, David Wilson-Okamura <David
> Wilson-Okamura@forums.simradar.com> brought the following to our:
>
>
> Yep.. got it a couple hours before your post. We must have seen it at
> nearly the same time. Haven't installed yet. Too busy in the Seattle/
> Mt Rainier region. Is there an Alps MAP which shows the extent of
> mesh coverage? Haven't looked [in there] thoroughly as yet.
>
> -G'
>
> btw.. have y'all tried out the `batch CRC and Unzip´ functions? i.e.
> CMD line? Makes it easy and fun to unpack LOTS of mesh files!! Smile
>
>>Free on AVSIM:
>>
>>Alps LOD10 Topo Mesh - Switzerland and France
>>http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004scen&DLID=80801
>>
>>Yet another terrain mesh package of the European Alps? Well, this one
>>is different in that it is NOT primarily based on the Shuttle Radar
>>(SRTM) data with their incomplete coverage of prominent peaks and
>>ridges. Instead, most of the source data for this project were
>>developed over many months by Jonathan de Ferranti using detailed
>>topographic maps. While Jonathan's work is unrelated to flight
>>simulation he kindly gave me permission to compile his data for use in
>>FS. The result is a wonderful improvement in detail and accuracy over
>>any existing SRTM- or DTED-based mesh file, freeware or commercial (a
>>link to an extensive set of screenshot comparisons is included in the
>>read-me file). I've compiled the source data at LOD10 (38-m) grid
>>resolution because the coverage area is smaller than most existing mesh
>>files. Thus, anyone can use these files without having to first
>>uninstall their current mesh set. Also included are LOD9 and LO8 buffer
>>mesh files. Note: if you own Switzerland Professional with its
>>high-resolution terrain mesh then you don't need this package, at least
>>not the Switzerland files!
>>
>>Filename: alpsw_fe.zip
>>License: Freeware, limited distribution
>>Added: 3rd February 2006
>>Downloads: 100
>>Author: Holger Sandmann and Jonathan de Ferranti
>>Size: 51234kb
>>
>>




Gregory

Usenet Poster
flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net
Posted on:
Feb 3, 2006, 10:54 AM

Post #6 of 26 (1053 views)
Shortcut  

Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to "Oskar Wagner"] Not logged in -   Reply 
On Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:15:12 +0100, "Oskar Wagner"
<rengaw@swissonline.ch> brought the following to our attention:

>Yes, there is a map showing coverage of each of the mesh parts. I have
>installed and checked around a bit. I can't find any improvement over the
>freeware Swiss-Austria (LOD9) mesh. Furthermore the new mesh ends at E009°
>50' leaving one of the most beautiful valleys of Switzerland - the Engadin
>valley with its famous Samedan Alpine Airport - outside.

I'm going to unpack it and explore just the same.. you know, in that
complicated SCENE - mesh structure with easy `on-off´ in menu/cfg. Smile

- -

Hey Oskar.. was wondering how aware people are when it comes to
instantly recognizing world Long and Lats? For instance.. how easy is
it (for average Joe, and global commander) to see E9° and N50° and
know generally where on earth that is?

I've made a point of familiarizing with USA Longs and Lats.. and
getting better at gaining an intuitive understanding. At least where
the coasts are located.. the extents of the continent.


>Apparently this LOD10 mesh has been created using initally 3arcsec data
>(90m) maybe with some manual refinements however - as mentioned above -
>there's no noticeable improvement against the Swiss-Austria besides the fact
>that it also covers parts of the French Alps. There are in fact three files
>covering Swiss Alps East, Swiss Alps West and French Alps. So you can still
>decide which part o use and which not.

Isn't the largest set of source data SRTM? (the shuttle mission) and
that's something like 76m? SOmeone please define another Shuttle
mission with objective to Map the majority of Lats at 10m. Yep.. we
MUST do this at once for WoRld Security!!!!!

>I have also playes around a bit with the (apparently) LOD11 mesh supplied by
>SwitzerlandPro. Accuracy is really impressive however there's another
>unwanted side effect showing up if you try using it with common landclass.
>Even flat portions are extremely "uneven", city and forest areas are
>elevated, reflecting elevation data by houses and trees. Using original
>phototiles of SwitzerlandPro will reduce the effect to a more or less
>desireable value as the cities and forest of course show up at the proper
>places. With usual landclass however the suface is just getting too bumpy
>with all the negative effects of MS standard landclass tiling.. Smile)

This is too advanced for me at the present time. I'm glad to have
ALL bugs out of my Sim (essentially) and enjoy flights all over the
world.

A very good place to start is out of Sion.. from there either turn
south towards the Sea.. or north over Geneva and up to the UK.
Going now to futz with mesh and Sim..bye.

-Gregory




"Oskar Wagner"

Usenet Poster
rengaw@swissonline.ch
Posted on:
Feb 3, 2006, 1:15 PM

Post #7 of 26 (1052 views)
Shortcut  

Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to Gregory] Not logged in -   Reply 
"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:95u6u1lcs89jm7q1u15fsdbjui6c4s6kpm@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:15:12 +0100, "Oskar Wagner"
> <rengaw@swissonline.ch> brought the following to our attention:
>
>>Yes, there is a map showing coverage of each of the mesh parts. I have
>>installed and checked around a bit. I can't find any improvement over the
>>freeware Swiss-Austria (LOD9) mesh. Furthermore the new mesh ends at E009°
>>50' leaving one of the most beautiful valleys of Switzerland - the Engadin
>>valley with its famous Samedan Alpine Airport - outside.
>
> I'm going to unpack it and explore just the same.. you know, in that
> complicated SCENE - mesh structure with easy `on-off´ in menu/cfg. Smile
>
> Hey Oskar.. was wondering how aware people are when it comes to
> instantly recognizing world Long and Lats? For instance.. how easy is
> it (for average Joe, and global commander) to see E9° and N50° and
> know generally where on earth that is?
>
> I've made a point of familiarizing with USA Longs and Lats.. and
> getting better at gaining an intuitive understanding. At least where
> the coasts are located.. the extents of the continent.
>
I'm afraid average Joe doesn't even have a clue about Lat's and Long's..
Smile) Here in FS it just depends on how much you are interested in that. If
you never look at the coord's you can still have all the fun that FS offers
and not feeling guilty at all Smile)) IRL however after crossing the atlantic
a few times you will eagerly wait for that 60W coming up on the horizon to
see New England....
>
>>Apparently this LOD10 mesh has been created using initally 3arcsec data
>>(90m) maybe with some manual refinements however - as mentioned above -
>>there's no noticeable improvement against the Swiss-Austria besides the
>>fact
>>that it also covers parts of the French Alps. There are in fact three
>>files
>>covering Swiss Alps East, Swiss Alps West and French Alps. So you can
>>still
>>decide which part o use and which not.
>
> Isn't the largest set of source data SRTM? (the shuttle mission) and
> that's something like 76m? SOmeone please define another Shuttle
> mission with objective to Map the majority of Lats at 10m. Yep.. we
> MUST do this at once for WoRld Security!!!!!

The SRTM is actually recorded at 3 arcsec which corresponds to around 90m.
For FS you need to got to a cretain LOD (Level Of Detail) which would be
LOD9 (76m) as the next higher resolution.

>>I have also playes around a bit with the (apparently) LOD11 mesh supplied
>>by
>>SwitzerlandPro. Accuracy is really impressive however there's another
>>unwanted side effect showing up if you try using it with common landclass.
>>Even flat portions are extremely "uneven", city and forest areas are
>>elevated, reflecting elevation data by houses and trees. Using original
>>phototiles of SwitzerlandPro will reduce the effect to a more or less
>>desireable value as the cities and forest of course show up at the proper
>>places. With usual landclass however the suface is just getting too bumpy
>>with all the negative effects of MS standard landclass tiling.. Smile)
>
> This is too advanced for me at the present time. I'm glad to have
> ALL bugs out of my Sim (essentially) and enjoy flights all over the
> world.
>
> A very good place to start is out of Sion.. from there either turn
> south towards the Sea.. or north over Geneva and up to the UK.
> Going now to futz with mesh and Sim..bye.
>
> -Gregory

Hmm, a bit sloppy Smile))) Going south to the Sea? Need to cross some 70 NM of
croppy mountains at elevations of 13'000+ ft first and....... Geneva is more
or less exactly WEST of Sion....ohh of course, again some mountains in
between
Smile)))))))
Sorry Greg, no pun intended. Just couldn't resist on that one Wink
--
Oskar Wagner
(retired Captain)

Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....




Gregory

Usenet Poster
flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net
Posted on:
Feb 3, 2006, 4:19 PM

Post #8 of 26 (1052 views)
Shortcut  

Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to "Oskar Wagner"] Not logged in -   Reply 
On Fri, 3 Feb 2006 19:15:16 +0100, "Oskar Wagner"
<rengaw@swissonline.ch> brought the following to our attention:

>"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>
>> On Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:15:12 +0100, "Oskar Wagner"
>> <rengaw@swissonline.ch> brought the following to our attention:
>>
>>>Yes, there is a map showing coverage of each of the mesh parts. I have
>>>installed and checked around a bit. I can't find any improvement over the
>>>freeware Swiss-Austria (LOD9) mesh. Furthermore the new mesh ends at E009°
>>>50' leaving one of the most beautiful valleys of Switzerland - the Engadin
>>>valley with its famous Samedan Alpine Airport - outside.
>>
>> I'm going to unpack it and explore just the same.. you know, in that
>> complicated SCENE - mesh structure with easy `on-off´ in menu/cfg. Smile
>>
>> Hey Oskar.. was wondering how aware people are when it comes to
>> instantly recognizing world Long and Lats? For instance.. how easy is
>> it (for average Joe, and global commander) to see E9° and N50° and
>> know generally where on earth that is?
>>
>> I've made a point of familiarizing with USA Longs and Lats.. and
>> getting better at gaining an intuitive understanding. At least where
>> the coasts are located.. the extents of the continent.
>>
>I'm afraid average Joe doesn't even have a clue about Lat's and Long's..
>Smile) Here in FS it just depends on how much you are interested in that. If
>you never look at the coord's you can still have all the fun that FS offers
>and not feeling guilty at all Smile)) IRL however after crossing the atlantic
>a few times you will eagerly wait for that 60W coming up on the horizon to
>see New England....
>>
>>>Apparently this LOD10 mesh has been created using initally 3arcsec data
>>>(90m) maybe with some manual refinements however - as mentioned above -
>>>there's no noticeable improvement against the Swiss-Austria besides the fact
>>>that it also covers parts of the French Alps. There are in fact three files
>>>covering Swiss Alps East, Swiss Alps West and French Alps. So you can still
>>>decide which part o use and which not.
>>
>> Isn't the largest set of source data SRTM? (the shuttle mission) and
>> that's something like 76m? SOmeone please define another Shuttle
>> mission with objective to Map the majority of Lats at 10m. Yep.. we
>> MUST do this at once for WoRld Security!!!!!
>
>The SRTM is actually recorded at 3 arcsec which corresponds to around 90m.
>For FS you need to got to a cretain LOD (Level Of Detail) which would be
>LOD9 (76m) as the next higher resolution.
>
>>>I have also playes around a bit with the (apparently) LOD11 mesh supplied by
>>>SwitzerlandPro. Accuracy is really impressive however there's another
>>>unwanted side effect showing up if you try using it with common landclass.
>>>Even flat portions are extremely "uneven", city and forest areas are
>>>elevated, reflecting elevation data by houses and trees. Using original
>>>phototiles of SwitzerlandPro will reduce the effect to a more or less
>>>desireable value as the cities and forest of course show up at the proper
>>>places. With usual landclass however the suface is just getting too bumpy
>>>with all the negative effects of MS standard landclass tiling.. Smile)
>>
>> This is too advanced for me at the present time. I'm glad to have
>> ALL bugs out of my Sim (essentially) and enjoy flights all over the
>> world.
>>
>> A very good place to start is out of Sion.. from there either turn
>> south towards the Sea.. or north over Geneva and up to the UK.
>> Going now to futz with mesh and Sim..bye.
>>
>> -Gregory
>
>Hmm, a bit sloppy Smile))) Going south to the Sea? Need to cross some 70 NM of
>croppy mountains at elevations of 13'000+ ft first and....... Geneva is more
>or less exactly WEST of Sion....ohh of course, again some mountains in
>between
>Smile)))))))
>Sorry Greg, no pun intended. Just couldn't resist on that one Wink

Glad you have lots of smile symbols.. otherwise it would look like:
`who is this desk guy telling SwissAir how to fly over the Alps?´ :]

But I'd like to tell a quick story about [what I believe to be] trans-
Atlantic flights. On weekdays when the weather is clear, there appears
to be many high-flying aircraft with very long (and robust) contrails
heading almost directly over our location. Not knowing exactly.. they
seem to be heading 250, direct Pawling or Kingston along V106. Often
two almost a-beam, one slightly ahead, racing for the New York state
line!! It's amazing.. I'm 95% certain these are heavies coming down
V39 or V93 from Newfoundland, over Maine and Massachusetts. V106
crosses about 5 miles NW of here at Barnes.


-Gregory




DownLoader boB

Usenet Poster
down.loadrREMOVECAPS@yahoo.com
Posted on:
Feb 3, 2006, 9:23 PM

Post #9 of 26 (1052 views)
Shortcut  

Which is Best ------Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to "Oskar Wagner"] Not logged in -   Reply 
Oskar Wagner wrote:
> Yes, there is a map showing coverage of each of the mesh parts. I have
> installed and checked around a bit. I can't find any improvement over the
> freeware Swiss-Austria (LOD9) mesh. Furthermore the new mesh ends at E009°
> 50' leaving one of the most beautiful valleys of Switzerland - the Engadin
> valley with its famous Samedan Alpine Airport - outside.
>

Oskar, I have to look to see what I have installed for
Swiss/Austria/France but I would like to know your opinion on which
freeware mesh is best and what you use. Whatever you say, I'll install,
along with that VOZ stuff. Smile

--

DownLoader boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)



"Oskar Wagner"

Usenet Poster
rengaw@swissonline.ch
Posted on:
Feb 3, 2006, 11:26 PM

Post #10 of 26 (1052 views)
Shortcut  

Re: Which is Best ------Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to DownLoader boB] Not logged in -   Reply 
Hmmmm, thank you boB, too much honor!! Wink I have tried all (to my
knowledge) available meshes for my country including payware but finally
ended up on the LOD9 freeware mesh which is available here:
http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?DLID=53095&CatID=fs2004scen

Lots of goodies for Switzerland are to be found here:
http://walhalla.mine.nu/fs2004/switzerland.php

The trouble with a new mesh in a mountaineous region like ours is that the
default lakes are simply unuseable with a more accureate mesh. At some point
it looks truly ridiculous.... Smile)

However if you would really like to hover around in our valleys and hit the
various storage lakes I could provide you with a more accurate setup of
lakes that should still be transferable by email at a size of 183 kB zipped.
Just let me know if you really want to go for it and I'll send it to you
with a detailed instruction for some manual tweaking (which is needed
unfortunately to "kill" the default lakes).
--
Oskar Wagner
(retired Captain)

Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....

"DownLoader boB" <down.loadrREMOVECAPS@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:BeUEf.27504$Vr.15916@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Oskar Wagner wrote:
>> Yes, there is a map showing coverage of each of the mesh parts. I have
>> installed and checked around a bit. I can't find any improvement over the
>> freeware Swiss-Austria (LOD9) mesh. Furthermore the new mesh ends at
>> E009° 50' leaving one of the most beautiful valleys of Switzerland - the
>> Engadin valley with its famous Samedan Alpine Airport - outside.
>>
>
> Oskar, I have to look to see what I have installed for
> Swiss/Austria/France but I would like to know your opinion on which
> freeware mesh is best and what you use. Whatever you say, I'll install,
> along with that VOZ stuff. Smile
>
> --
>
> DownLoader boB,
> SAG 70
>
> U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
> Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)




DownLoader boB

Usenet Poster
down.loadrREMOVECAPS@yahoo.com
Posted on:
Feb 3, 2006, 11:32 PM

Post #11 of 26 (1052 views)
Shortcut  

Re: Which is Best ------Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to "Oskar Wagner"] Not logged in -   Reply 
Oskar Wagner wrote:

>
> However if you would really like to hover around in our valleys and hit the
> various storage lakes I could provide you with a more accurate setup of
> lakes that should still be transferable by email at a size of 183 kB zipped.
> Just let me know if you really want to go for it and I'll send it to you
> with a detailed instruction for some manual tweaking (which is needed
> unfortunately to "kill" the default lakes).

I would love to Oskar. thanks. Send it to

down.loadr@XXXXXyahoo.com

Just remove the X's
--

DownLoader boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)



dswo

David Wilson-Okamura
Veteran
Member Since: Jan 2004
1230 posts


Posted on:
Feb 4, 2006, 9:52 AM

Post #12 of 26 (1047 views)
Shortcut   |  Private Reply

Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to dswo] Not logged in -   Reply 
Looks like there's an update of the France/Switzerland mesh (or maybe just a repost, it's hard to tell). As of last night, Sandmann has also added a new file, Austria/Italy. -- Not the whole countries, just the Alps! Get 'em both here: http://tinyurl.com/b6caw.

Screenshot comparisons here: http://holger.fs-shipyards.net/images/mesh_comparison/European_Alps. Read the readme.txt so you know what you're looking at. I have FSG's Europe mesh and noticed some extra nuance in the Sandmann versions.

On a related topic: Ultimate Terrain Europe is well advanced -- will address, among other things, the lake elevation problem that Oskar mentions. Lots of preview screenshots here, including some with Sandmann's Alps mesh: http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_topics.asp?FID=19&PN=1.

There's also been a lot of progress on Ground Environment's Europe textures; here's what Spain looked at last week (in combination with UT Europe): http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=15421&PN=2.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Wilson-Okamura (N26TC on VATSIM)
Flight Simulator Tour of Japan http://www.virgil.org/dswo/fs/japantour
More Places to Fly http://virgil.org/...antour/moreideas.htm


Gregory

Usenet Poster
flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net
Posted on:
Feb 4, 2006, 9:55 AM

Post #13 of 26 (1047 views)
Shortcut  

Re: Which is Best ------Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to DownLoader boB] Not logged in -   Reply 
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 02:23:29 GMT, DownLoader boB
<down.loadrREMOVECAPS@yahoo.com> brought the following:

>Oskar Wagner wrote:
>> Yes, there is a map showing coverage of each of the mesh parts. I have
>> installed and checked around a bit. I can't find any improvement over the
>> freeware Swiss-Austria (LOD9) mesh. Furthermore the new mesh ends at E009°
>> 50' leaving one of the most beautiful valleys of Switzerland - the Engadin
>> valley with its famous Samedan Alpine Airport - outside.
>>
>
>Oskar, I have to look to see what I have installed for
>Swiss/Austria/France but I would like to know your opinion on which
>freeware mesh is best and what you use. Whatever you say, I'll install,
>along with that VOZ stuff. Smile



Here they are.. all unpacked and in: \Scenery folders...




Directory of F:\FS2002\SCENE - Mesh\Sandmann - Alps\Scenery

01/24/2006 45,602,345 mesh_SRTM2_Alps_Austria_LOD10.bgl
01/24/2006 7,311,518 mesh_SRTM2_Alps_East_LOD8.bgl
01/24/2006 23,841,756 mesh_SRTM2_Alps_East_LOD9.bgl
01/24/2006 13,240,932 mesh_SRTM2_Alps_France_LOD10.bgl
01/24/2006 11,312,823 mesh_SRTM2_Alps_SwissEast_LOD10.bgl
01/24/2006 11,792,923 mesh_SRTM2_Alps_SwissWest_LOD10.bgl
01/24/2006 3,830,137 mesh_SRTM2_Alps_West_LOD8.bgl
01/24/2006 11,825,452 mesh_SRTM2_Alps_West_LOD9.bgl

8 File(s) 128,757,886 bytes



Directory of F:\FS2002\SCENE - Mesh\Europe - van Veen 76m\Scenery

08/25/2004 7,851,405 Denmark.bgl
08/25/2004 25,519,548 France.bgl
08/25/2004 65,738,220 Germany.bgl
08/13/2004 11,760,076 Holland.bgl
08/25/2004 112,892,532 Italy.bgl
08/25/2004 82,727,683 Spain_Portugal.bgl
08/25/2004 51,521,473 Switzerland_Austria.bgl
08/24/2004 57,262,052 UK_Ireland.bgl

8 File(s) 415,272,989 bytes




Now it's just a matter of going into the MENU and selecting eack pak..
and prehaps adjusting the order or priorities. Note LOD 8, 9, and 10.


-G'




Gregory

Usenet Poster
flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net
Posted on:
Feb 4, 2006, 10:21 AM

Post #14 of 26 (1047 views)
Shortcut  

Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to dswo] Not logged in -   Reply 
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 08:53:07 -0600, David Wilson-Okamura <David
Wilson-Okamura@forums.simradar.com> brought the following to our
attention:

>Looks like there's an update of the France/Switzerland mesh (or maybe
>just a repost, it's hard to tell). As of last night, Sandmann has also
>added a new file, Austria/Italy. -- Not the whole countries, just the
>Alps! Get 'em both here: http://tinyurl.com/b6caw.


Does this one look `carved´ to you? (from above link)

http://holger.fs-shipyards.net/images/mesh_comparison/European_Alps/Alps%20France%20MtBlanc%20NE%20side%20-%20default%20GTOPO30%20mesh.jpg


-G'


>Screenshot comparisons here:
>http://holger.fs-shipyards.net/images/mesh_comparison/European_Alps.
>Read the readme.txt so you know what you're looking at. I have FSG's
>Europe mesh and noticed some extra nuance in the Sandmann versions.
>
>On a related topic: Ultimate Terrain Europe is well advanced -- will
>address, among other things, the lake elevation problem that Oskar
>mentions. Lots of preview screenshots here, including some with
>Sandmann's Alps mesh:
>http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_topics.asp?FID=19&PN=1.
>
>There's also been a lot of progress on Ground Environment's Europe
>textures; here's what Spain looked at last week (in combination with UT
>Europe):
>http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=15421&PN=2.
>





"Oskar Wagner"

Usenet Poster
rengaw@swissonline.ch
Posted on:
Feb 4, 2006, 10:52 AM

Post #15 of 26 (1047 views)
Shortcut  

Re: Which is Best ------Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to Gregory] Not logged in -   Reply 
Hmm, I just don't like THIS on the Holger Sandmann's Switzerland East mesh
Smile

http://www.windoscar.ch/images/LOD10_Engadin.jpg

Unfortunately just ending at the most beautiful valley in the Swiss Eastern
Alps, the Engadin valley with it's famous alpine airport (5606 ft MSL)
Samaden. I know that I'm fairly picky when it comes to meshes of my home
country Wink) I usually check their accuracy with my own SwissMap tool

http://www.windoscar.ch/images/SR_Grimsel.jpg

and to-date I found three meshes that fulfill my personal position accuracy
standards:
Swiss-Austria Mesh (LOD9, freeware), also elevations in high accuracy
Lago Terramesh (LOD10, payware), quite some elevation errors
SwitzerlandPro (LOD11, pay-payware), almost too accurate Smile))
--
Oskar Wagner
(retired Captain)

Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....

"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:6rf9u1l7vs1nvfkbg5bf3ubrscl65qnhou@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 02:23:29 GMT, DownLoader boB
> <down.loadrREMOVECAPS@yahoo.com> brought the following:
>
>>Oskar Wagner wrote:
>>> Yes, there is a map showing coverage of each of the mesh parts. I have
>>> installed and checked around a bit. I can't find any improvement over
>>> the
>>> freeware Swiss-Austria (LOD9) mesh. Furthermore the new mesh ends at
>>> E009°
>>> 50' leaving one of the most beautiful valleys of Switzerland - the
>>> Engadin
>>> valley with its famous Samedan Alpine Airport - outside.
>>>
>>
>>Oskar, I have to look to see what I have installed for
>>Swiss/Austria/France but I would like to know your opinion on which
>>freeware mesh is best and what you use. Whatever you say, I'll install,
>>along with that VOZ stuff. Smile
>
>
>
> Here they are.. all unpacked and in: \Scenery folders...
>
>
>
>
> Directory of F:\FS2002\SCENE - Mesh\Sandmann - Alps\Scenery
>
> 01/24/2006 45,602,345 mesh_SRTM2_Alps_Austria_LOD10.bgl
> 01/24/2006 7,311,518 mesh_SRTM2_Alps_East_LOD8.bgl
> 01/24/2006 23,841,756 mesh_SRTM2_Alps_East_LOD9.bgl
> 01/24/2006 13,240,932 mesh_SRTM2_Alps_France_LOD10.bgl
> 01/24/2006 11,312,823 mesh_SRTM2_Alps_SwissEast_LOD10.bgl
> 01/24/2006 11,792,923 mesh_SRTM2_Alps_SwissWest_LOD10.bgl
> 01/24/2006 3,830,137 mesh_SRTM2_Alps_West_LOD8.bgl
> 01/24/2006 11,825,452 mesh_SRTM2_Alps_West_LOD9.bgl
>
> 8 File(s) 128,757,886 bytes
>
>
>
> Directory of F:\FS2002\SCENE - Mesh\Europe - van Veen 76m\Scenery
>
> 08/25/2004 7,851,405 Denmark.bgl
> 08/25/2004 25,519,548 France.bgl
> 08/25/2004 65,738,220 Germany.bgl
> 08/13/2004 11,760,076 Holland.bgl
> 08/25/2004 112,892,532 Italy.bgl
> 08/25/2004 82,727,683 Spain_Portugal.bgl
> 08/25/2004 51,521,473 Switzerland_Austria.bgl
> 08/24/2004 57,262,052 UK_Ireland.bgl
>
> 8 File(s) 415,272,989 bytes
>
>
>
>
> Now it's just a matter of going into the MENU and selecting eack pak..
> and prehaps adjusting the order or priorities. Note LOD 8, 9, and 10.
>
>
> -G'
>




dswo

David Wilson-Okamura
Veteran
Member Since: Jan 2004
1230 posts


Posted on:
Feb 4, 2006, 11:26 AM

Post #16 of 26 (1045 views)
Shortcut   |  Private Reply

Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to dswo] Not logged in -   Reply 
From Gregory and Oskar's screenshots, it's clear that Sandmann's mesh has some rough patches.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Wilson-Okamura (N26TC on VATSIM)
Flight Simulator Tour of Japan http://www.virgil.org/dswo/fs/japantour
More Places to Fly http://virgil.org/...antour/moreideas.htm


"Roger Anderson"

Usenet Poster
arjayREMOVE@singnet.com.sg
Posted on:
Feb 4, 2006, 2:09 PM

Post #17 of 26 (1045 views)
Shortcut  

Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to dswo] Not logged in -   Reply 
Let's not nitpik here guys, - perfect it may not be, - free it is, and we
should be thankful to all who have made it almost perfect. Perfection will
come with FSX I'm assured Smile

Roger.


"David Wilson-Okamura" <David Wilson-Okamura@forums.simradar.com> wrote in
message news:1139070379.13013@forums.simradar.com...
> From Gregory and Oskar's screenshots, it's clear that Sandmann's mesh
> has some rough patches.
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
> Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!




dswo

David Wilson-Okamura
Veteran
Member Since: Jan 2004
1230 posts


Posted on:
Feb 4, 2006, 2:35 PM

Post #18 of 26 (1042 views)
Shortcut   |  Private Reply

Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to dswo] Not logged in -   Reply 
Roger makes a good point here. But I don't think anyone's running Sandmann down. He invites comparison with other meshes, and we're trying to evaluate the basic claim that he makes in his description: that this mesh is better than most of the alternatives (excepting the super-expensive Switzerland Pro stuff). It's a practical question, and it seems to me that Oskar and Gregory are addressing it in a practical way, and one that might help other simmers decide which mesh to install.

Would I like someone else to start picking apart my freeware contribution like this? Of course not -- unless I claimed to be doing something different and better. In that case, presumably, I would be prepared for a higher level of scrutiny.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Wilson-Okamura (N26TC on VATSIM)
Flight Simulator Tour of Japan http://www.virgil.org/dswo/fs/japantour
More Places to Fly http://virgil.org/...antour/moreideas.htm


Gregory

Usenet Poster
flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net
Posted on:
Feb 4, 2006, 2:49 PM

Post #19 of 26 (1042 views)
Shortcut  

Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to dswo] Not logged in -   Reply 
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 13:36:07 -0600, David Wilson-Okamura <David
Wilson-Okamura@forums.simradar.com> brought the following:

>It's a practical question, and it seems to me that Oskar and Gregory
>are addressing it in a practical way, and one that might help other
>simmers decide which mesh to install.

Well.. I've not actually tried it out yet. Only looked at photo
cap examples and noticed some areas.. and it's not clear
what the spacing or size of those `flats´ are. Native Res or
much wider? It's not easy to determine from a screenpic.

BTW.. am unable to reach Oskar's webspace from Comcast.
It was like that in the past weeks, since back in December
even, but didn't what to make a big deal of it.


-G'





"Oskar Wagner"

Usenet Poster
rengaw@swissonline.ch
Posted on:
Feb 4, 2006, 3:56 PM

Post #20 of 26 (1041 views)
Shortcut  

Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to dswo] Not logged in -   Reply 
Thank you David. It's exactly what I would point out too. I wish I could do
some mesh like others do but unfortunately I'm still stuck in some basics.
Holger Sandmann is well known and reputed for mesh and scenery design and it
is of course not my goal to run down any of his fine artworks.
The thing in an mesh discussion is that - especially if it concerns my home
country - I have many means to track accuracy and applicability and of
course if a new mesh is less accurate than an older one I think is should be
addressed. This said I must point out that - as also discussed already - of
course there's a point where discussions of accuracy should be ended. On the
other hand I'm still on my way to create a landclass for Switzerland based
on an average accuracy of +/-50 m for any road or river or lake. So where
for all other people a position shift of say 200m doesn't matter, it really
does for my work. That's why I'm still eagerly watching every new issue of
meshes. And in no way to rund down anybody for his great work. Should I have
been misunderstood in that way so please accept my apologies.
--
Oskar Wagner
(retired Captain)

Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....

"David Wilson-Okamura" <David Wilson-Okamura@forums.simradar.com> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag news:1139081733.5098@forums.simradar.com...
> Roger makes a good point here. But I don't think anyone's running
> Sandmann down. He invites comparison with other meshes, and we're
> trying to evaluate the basic claim that he makes in his description:
> that this mesh is better than most of the alternatives (excepting the
> super-expensive Switzerland Pro stuff). It's a practical question, and
> it seems to me that Oskar and Gregory are addressing it in a practical
> way, and one that might help other simmers decide which mesh to
> install.
>
> Would I like someone else to start picking apart my freeware
> contribution like this? Of course not -- unless I claimed to be doing
> something different and better. In that case, presumably, I would be
> prepared for a higher level of scrutiny.
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
> Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!




Gregory

Usenet Poster
flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net
Posted on:
Feb 5, 2006, 9:38 AM

Post #21 of 26 (1036 views)
Shortcut  

Re: Which is Best ------Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to "Oskar Wagner"] Not logged in -   Reply 
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:52:05 +0100, "Oskar Wagner"
<rengaw@swissonline.ch> brought the following to our attention:

>Hmm, I just don't like THIS on the Holger Sandmann's Switzerland East mesh Smile
>
>http://www.windoscar.ch/images/LOD10_Engadin.jpg
>
>Unfortunately just ending at the most beautiful valley in the Swiss Eastern
>Alps, the Engadin valley with it's famous alpine airport (5606 ft MSL)
>Samaden. I know that I'm fairly picky when it comes to meshes of my home
>country Wink) I usually check their accuracy with my own SwissMap tool
>
>http://www.windoscar.ch/images/SR_Grimsel.jpg
>
>and to-date I found three meshes that fulfill my personal position accuracy
>standards:
>Swiss-Austria Mesh (LOD9, freeware), also elevations in high accuracy
>Lago Terramesh (LOD10, payware), quite some elevation errors
>SwitzerlandPro (LOD11, pay-payware), almost too accurate Smile))

The .ch webspace is reachable today so the JPGs are coming thru
almost instantly now. Have activated the Europe Mesh by van Veen
and doing takeoffs from Sion (to the west) heading for London in
CRJ-200.. working on engine tables. Will put link to 3-frame slideshow
below. Sion is [in] the valley behind the flight. Am starting to get
serious stutters with 500MHz how!!!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/flightsim/tags/sion/show/


Slideshow order is reversed.. but still very good views of the Alps..
even in FS8. Lots of fog coming into Heathrow. :-]


-Gregory




"Not4wood"

Usenet Poster
no_spam_mgottes@verizon.net
Posted on:
Feb 6, 2006, 5:54 PM

Post #22 of 26 (1036 views)
Shortcut  

Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to "Oskar Wagner"] Not logged in -   Reply 
Oskar,

I use Suisse for the mesh, can this be used with the above mentioned or is
it to be replaced??

Have you seen or used this?

Mark G
Not4wood

"Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote in message
news:ds34d0$lc4$1@news.hispeed.ch...
> Thank you David. It's exactly what I would point out too. I wish I could
> do some mesh like others do but unfortunately I'm still stuck in some
> basics. Holger Sandmann is well known and reputed for mesh and scenery
> design and it is of course not my goal to run down any of his fine
> artworks.
> The thing in an mesh discussion is that - especially if it concerns my
> home country - I have many means to track accuracy and applicability and
> of course if a new mesh is less accurate than an older one I think is
> should be addressed. This said I must point out that - as also discussed
> already - of course there's a point where discussions of accuracy should
> be ended. On the other hand I'm still on my way to create a landclass for
> Switzerland based on an average accuracy of +/-50 m for any road or river
> or lake. So where for all other people a position shift of say 200m
> doesn't matter, it really does for my work. That's why I'm still eagerly
> watching every new issue of meshes. And in no way to rund down anybody for
> his great work. Should I have been misunderstood in that way so please
> accept my apologies.
> --
> Oskar Wagner
> (retired Captain)
>
> Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....
>
> "David Wilson-Okamura" <David Wilson-Okamura@forums.simradar.com> schrieb
> im Newsbeitrag news:1139081733.5098@forums.simradar.com...
>> Roger makes a good point here. But I don't think anyone's running
>> Sandmann down. He invites comparison with other meshes, and we're
>> trying to evaluate the basic claim that he makes in his description:
>> that this mesh is better than most of the alternatives (excepting the
>> super-expensive Switzerland Pro stuff). It's a practical question, and
>> it seems to me that Oskar and Gregory are addressing it in a practical
>> way, and one that might help other simmers decide which mesh to
>> install.
>>
>> Would I like someone else to start picking apart my freeware
>> contribution like this? Of course not -- unless I claimed to be doing
>> something different and better. In that case, presumably, I would be
>> prepared for a higher level of scrutiny.
>>
>> _________________________________________________________
>> Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
>> Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
>
>




"Oskar Wagner"

Usenet Poster
rengaw@swissonline.ch
Posted on:
Feb 6, 2006, 7:25 PM

Post #23 of 26 (1036 views)
Shortcut  

Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to "Not4wood"] Not logged in -   Reply 
Well, I don't know about a mesh called Suisse, so it's hard to say anything
about. But generally you can replace a mesh without any problems. As long as
there's nothing better around I still recommend the LOD9 mesh Switzerland
Austria found at avsim. The only problem with any mesh here in Switzerland
are the default lakes, which are more or less unuseable with a more detailed
mesh at their positioning and layout is a bit too much away from reality
Smile)
--
Oskar Wagner
(retired Captain)

Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....

"Not4wood" <no_spam_mgottes@verizon.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1tQFf.3101$PK2.1104@trndny06...
> Oskar,
>
> I use Suisse for the mesh, can this be used with the above mentioned or is
> it to be replaced??
>
> Have you seen or used this?
>
> Mark G
> Not4wood
>
> "Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote in message
> news:ds34d0$lc4$1@news.hispeed.ch...
>> Thank you David. It's exactly what I would point out too. I wish I could
>> do some mesh like others do but unfortunately I'm still stuck in some
>> basics. Holger Sandmann is well known and reputed for mesh and scenery
>> design and it is of course not my goal to run down any of his fine
>> artworks.
>> The thing in an mesh discussion is that - especially if it concerns my
>> home country - I have many means to track accuracy and applicability and
>> of course if a new mesh is less accurate than an older one I think is
>> should be addressed. This said I must point out that - as also discussed
>> already - of course there's a point where discussions of accuracy should
>> be ended. On the other hand I'm still on my way to create a landclass for
>> Switzerland based on an average accuracy of +/-50 m for any road or river
>> or lake. So where for all other people a position shift of say 200m
>> doesn't matter, it really does for my work. That's why I'm still eagerly
>> watching every new issue of meshes. And in no way to rund down anybody
>> for his great work. Should I have been misunderstood in that way so
>> please accept my apologies.
>> --
>> Oskar Wagner
>> (retired Captain)
>>
>> Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....
>>
>> "David Wilson-Okamura" <David Wilson-Okamura@forums.simradar.com> schrieb
>> im Newsbeitrag news:1139081733.5098@forums.simradar.com...
>>> Roger makes a good point here. But I don't think anyone's running
>>> Sandmann down. He invites comparison with other meshes, and we're
>>> trying to evaluate the basic claim that he makes in his description:
>>> that this mesh is better than most of the alternatives (excepting the
>>> super-expensive Switzerland Pro stuff). It's a practical question, and
>>> it seems to me that Oskar and Gregory are addressing it in a practical
>>> way, and one that might help other simmers decide which mesh to
>>> install.
>>>
>>> Would I like someone else to start picking apart my freeware
>>> contribution like this? Of course not -- unless I claimed to be doing
>>> something different and better. In that case, presumably, I would be
>>> prepared for a higher level of scrutiny.
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________
>>> Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
>>> Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
>>
>>
>
>




viewfinder

New User
Member Since: Mar 2006
2 posts

Posted on:
Mar 1, 2006, 10:05 AM

Post #24 of 26 (998 views)
Shortcut   |  Private Reply

Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to "Oskar Wagner"] Not logged in -   Reply 
Sorry to come in late on this thread, but it has only just come to my attention.

The new Alps mesh was the idea, creation ond upload of Holger Sandmann, DEM data from my website was used to create it, so I was named as co-author. I beg to disagree with the claim by Oskar Wagner that there is nothing better than the LOD9 Avsim mesh, and to illustrate my point, here are two comparison images, the first from the LOD9 mesh, the second from Sandmann.





The main issue is not the LOD; it is the data source, and as far as I can tell, the LOD9 mesh from FSDEM was created wholly from SRTM 3" data. This data does not cover many of the highest Alpine summits, which are blanked out with "no data" values. The Matterhorn is one of many examples of mountains that are so affected; the highest SRTM cell at its location is more than 700m lower than its true summit. Unless data from other sources are used, these no-data areas have be interpolated. Without input from alterhative sources, no algorithm can do this properly.

It seems that Oskar did not check out the accuracy of the high mountain profiles before he came to his comparison conclusions. If he does not mind about inaccurate mountain profiles then he should stay with the older mesh, but I think many simmers would like to see a more realistic Matterhorn.

It is also worth pointing out that the Engadine image uploaded by Oskar is at the eastern boundary of the western mesh. If a mesh boundary passes through a high relief area, discontinuity is sometimes unavoidable. If the eastern mesh is installed, this effect will not occur at the Engadine.

Jonathan de Ferranti, Scotland

Live and let live

The free flow of knowledge is strength


"Oskar Wagner"

Usenet Poster
rengaw@swissonline.ch
Posted on:
Mar 3, 2006, 6:29 AM

Post #25 of 26 (975 views)
Shortcut  

Re: New Alps mesh (38m) [In reply to viewfinder] Not logged in -   Reply 
Sorry Jonathan, I did in no way want to blame anybody for the work he has
done, especially if the outcome is freeware.. Smile) My comments were based
upon about 50 spot checks done over the whole Switzerland area. Of course I
noticed the better modeling of the Matterhorn but this is only ONE of many
checks I have done and I am also well aware of the reason for the steep
cliffs in the Engadin Valley as at the time I installed the mesh I didn't
have the eastern mesh.

I am currently trying to build a Swiss scenery based on landclass and
hand-drawn roads and rivers based on the official Swiss Geographical map and
there's the point whre my concerns are. Many areas are just not exactly as
they are supposed to be, especially when it comes to narrow river valleys
such as the Rhine valley east of Chur and others. I admit that this is not
only the case on Holger's mesh but also on others. I know of course also
that it is sheerly impossible to model a 99% accurate mesh without hand
corrections done for each critical region.

Maybe my statement regarding the use of Holger's mesh was a bit unclear. I
just wanted to point out that - taking into account every aspect - for the
moment I don't see any reason to use another mesh that the one I currently
use.

To be honest I wish I could do any work on creating a mesh as accurately as
possible as I have time galore... Smile) But unfortunately I'm lacking the
tools, data sources and of course also skills to do so. But still I may
dream about... Smile)
--
Oskar Wagner
(retired Captain)

Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....

"viewfinder" <viewfinder@forums.simradar.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1141225511.22441@forums.simradar.com...
> Sorry to come in late on this thread, but it has only just come to my
> attention.
>
> The new Alps mesh was the idea, creation ond upload of Holger Sandmann,
> DEM data from my website was used to create it, so I was named as
> co-author. I beg to disagree with the claim by Oskar Wagner that there
> is nothing better than the LOD9 Avsim mesh, and to illustrate my point,
> here are two comparison images, the first from the LOD9 mesh, the
> second from Sandmann.
>
> http://www.viewfinderpanoramas.org/flightsim/Matterhorn-CHA2004.jpg
>
> http://www.viewfinderpanoramas.org/flightsim/Matterhorn-sandmann.jpg
>
> The main issue is not the LOD; it is the data source, and as far as I
> can tell, the LOD9 mesh from FSDEM was created wholly from SRTM 3"
> data. This data does not cover many of the highest Alpine summits,
> which are blanked out with "no data" values. The Matterhorn is one of
> many examples of mountains that are so affected; the highest SRTM cell
> at its location is more than 700m lower than its true summit. Unless
> data from other sources are used, these no-data areas have be
> interpolated. Without input from alterhative sources, no algorithm can
> do this properly.
>
> It seems that Oskar did not check out the accuracy of the high mountain
> profiles before he came to his comparison conclusions. If he does not
> mind about inaccurate mountain profiles then he should stay with the
> older mesh, but I think many simmers would like to see a more realistic
> Matterhorn.
>
> It is also worth pointing out that the Engadine image uploaded by Oskar
> is at the eastern boundary of the western mesh. If a mesh boundary
> passes through a high relief area, discontinuity is sometimes
> unavoidable. If the eastern mesh is installed, this effect will not
> occur at the Engadine.
>
> Jonathan de Ferranti, Scotland
>
> Live and let live
>
> The free flow of knowledge is strength
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
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