OT (completely) Digital Camcorders   
ABOUT US | ADVERTISING | CONTACT US | HELP/FAQ | HOME  
 
 | 
 | 
 | 
 | 
 | 
 
    A FLIGHT SIMULATOR COMMUNITY Favorites | My Records | Add URL 

OT (completely) Digital Camcorders

  Microsoft Flight Simulators  


 
Main Index INDEX

 
Search Posts SEARCH

 
Log in SIGN_IN

sign in or register to post messages  
 


Iain Smith

Usenet Poster
iain.smith@2btinternet3.com
Posted on:
Nov 8, 2007, 3:51 PM

Post #1 of 25 (45 views)
Shortcut  

OT (completely) Digital Camcorders Not logged in -   Reply 

Now that our grandson is starting to do all sorts of interesting things
I'd like to get a digital camcorder. Any recommendations from the usual
brands - Sony, JVC, Panasonic, Canon etc? I was thinking that a hard
drive (HDD) machine was the right way to go.

In the bit of internet searching I've done there seem to be two
recurring problems - battery duration and low level light performance.
As a lot of shooting will be done indoors I don't want to get one that
needs floodlights to operate.

I'm looking to spend a max of GBP 300 (about US$ 600). However I realise
that this may not have much meaning on an international NG such as this!

Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

Iain



SnakeEyes

Usenet Poster
agalspector@hotmail.com
Posted on:
Nov 8, 2007, 5:35 PM

Post #2 of 25 (45 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to Iain Smith] Not logged in -   Reply 

On Nov 8, 3:51 pm, Iain Smith <iain.sm...@2btinternet3.com> wrote:

> Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
>
> Iain


I was shopping around for one as well, and wasn't overjoyed at what I
found. I did discover one thing which interested me.. Sony
camcorders were given a very high rating in several reviews and I
might have bought one except for one VERY big reason: Any peripherals
you buy (accessories) MUST be made by Sony for its products. This can
be very annoying and expensive, especially when there's a big sale on
generic gadgets.

My next choice would be Canon. I was looking for a High Definition
camcorder which doesn't seem to be the one you are interested in
because many of the ones I checked out cost over a grand. However, my
warning for Sony still stands.

By the way, I lost interest in the camcorder when I came to the
conclusion that after taking videos of my cats, I probably wouldn't
use it much any more.....much like the Canon camcorder I purchased
many years ago which became obsolete sitting in its original
case...almost brand new.

Good luck in your quest.

Arthur




"The Old Bloke"

Usenet Poster
le0pard32X@XgmailX.com
Posted on:
Nov 8, 2007, 5:51 PM

Post #3 of 25 (45 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to Iain Smith] Not logged in -   Reply 

"Iain Smith" <iain.smith@2btinternet3.com> wrote in message
news:r8KdnYrJ5bsq667aRVnyhQA@bt.com...
> Now that our grandson is starting to do all sorts of interesting things
> I'd like to get a digital camcorder. Any recommendations from the usual
> brands - Sony, JVC, Panasonic, Canon etc? I was thinking that a hard drive
> (HDD) machine was the right way to go.
>
> In the bit of internet searching I've done there seem to be two recurring
> problems - battery duration and low level light performance. As a lot of
> shooting will be done indoors I don't want to get one that needs
> floodlights to operate.
>
> I'm looking to spend a max of GBP 300 (about US$ 600). However I realise
> that this may not have much meaning on an international NG such as this!
>
> Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
>
> Iain

I had had a few DV recorders. I prefer one which records to a tape. It's
always easy to have a spare tape, but if you buy one with a HDD, once that
HDD is full you have to find a PC to download.




"Rog"

Usenet Poster
bermec@hotmail.com
Posted on:
Nov 8, 2007, 6:12 PM

Post #4 of 25 (45 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to Iain Smith] Not logged in -   Reply 

 


"Iain Smith" <iain.smith@2btinternet3.com> wrote in message
news:r8KdnYrJ5bsq667aRVnyhQA@bt.com...
> Now that our grandson is starting to do all sorts of interesting things
> I'd like to get a digital camcorder. Any recommendations from the usual
> brands - Sony, JVC, Panasonic, Canon etc? I was thinking that a hard drive
> (HDD) machine was the right way to go.
>
> In the bit of internet searching I've done there seem to be two recurring
> problems - battery duration and low level light performance. As a lot of
> shooting will be done indoors I don't want to get one that needs
> floodlights to operate.
>
> I'm looking to spend a max of GBP 300 (about US$ 600). However I realise
> that this may not have much meaning on an international NG such as this!
>
> Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
>
> Iain

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000PXK7VE/interactiveda3024-21
This is the one I have decided to purchase, having had to bin my 3yr old JVC
after continual problems.
I am making do with my Canon F700 camera in movie mode.
--
Rog
http://www.rog.richieward.com




"donbutts"

Usenet Poster
remove.donneybutts@hotmail.com
Posted on:
Nov 8, 2007, 6:19 PM

Post #5 of 25 (45 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to SnakeEyes] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"SnakeEyes" <agalspector@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1194561329.772805.324280@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 8, 3:51 pm, Iain Smith <iain.sm...@2btinternet3.com> wrote:
>
>> Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
>>
>> Iain
>
> By the way, I lost interest in the camcorder when I came to the
> conclusion that after taking videos of my cats, I probably wouldn't
> use it much any more.....much like the Canon camcorder I purchased
> many years ago which became obsolete sitting in its original
> case...almost brand new.
>
> Good luck in your quest.
>
> Arthur
>

Have been going through that exercise myself Iain with a second hand Canon
Digi minitape NV8100 offered for about 80 quid your money.
It's fairly new and goes well. Exceptional quality on play back on a 43" LCD
(no no thats not the camera screen)
But when would I use it? Apart from the Singapore trip in a few days then
bore everyone later.
I went searching for reviews and the Canon CCC was mentioned by users.
(Canon Common Cassette Curse)
But I think it's a user related problem in not waiting for the automatics to
open load and do its thing... and helping it along impatiently with
fingers.(as it is fairly slow.)
So I decided against the second hand one.
It loads from the base which means taking it off the tripod.
My friend uses one professionally as a reserve to his Canon Chainsaw and
considers he has used 8 years of normal life with it and never let him down
Retailers here just on the verge of preferring hard drives.
Anyway 30 X optical plus these days .. great!
Cheers
Don




jerryfriz

Novice
Member Since: Oct 2007
11 posts

Posted on:
Nov 8, 2007, 6:43 PM

Post #6 of 25 (44 views)
Shortcut   |  Private Reply

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to Iain Smith] Not logged in -   Reply 

I would recommend the JVC, or Sony, with the hard drive, over time you will save, no dvd's, etc., to buy, very handy to use.
Regards,
Jerry


"TOCA"

Usenet Poster
Not@valid.com
Posted on:
Nov 8, 2007, 6:53 PM

Post #7 of 25 (44 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to SnakeEyes] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"SnakeEyes" <agalspector@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1194561329.772805.324280@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 8, 3:51 pm, Iain Smith <iain.sm...@2btinternet3.com> wrote:
>
>> Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
>>
>> Iain
>
>
> I was shopping around for one as well, and wasn't overjoyed at what I
> found. I did discover one thing which interested me.. Sony
> camcorders were given a very high rating in several reviews and I
> might have bought one except for one VERY big reason: Any peripherals
> you buy (accessories) MUST be made by Sony for its products. This can
> be very annoying and expensive, especially when there's a big sale on
> generic gadgets.
>

Totaly agrees on that one, that's how Sony makes money, sell the main thing
cheap, and charge heavyly on peripherals, which are allways non standard.

Other than that: A hard drive is a great way to get a fast storrage, however
they are hard on the batterys.

Tapes are cheap, but they don't last forever, and can be a hassel to copy.

Solid state memorycards, are easy on the batterys, can take anny abuse, but
can't hold a lot of film yet, as they max out at 128GB and gets too
expensive for normal people at 4GB.

There are some models, which can record directly to DVD disks, but they are
eaven harder on the powersuply, than harddrives, and a bit on the expensive
side, for heavy users.

No need for HD, eaven if your telli is a HD model, unless you record at
ideal lightconditions, you wont see the difference annyway, 800*600 ress,
will do just fine for TV and puter screens (640*480 is plenty for a standard
TV).

For the lights: The more powerfull the zoom lense is, the more lenses goes
into it, and the more light it needs, on the other hand, a zoom at less than
10x is useless (not realy, but you will regret it). Moving pictures have
allways needed more light, than stills, because you can not set the shutter
time at more than 1/25 of a second (Standard films are 24-25 fps), and eaven
if you can do just fine with 15 fps in MSFS, you don't want to wach
annything recorded at less than 24 fps.

You allso need Image Stabilisors (sp?) (IS), not as much as on standard
cameras, but when using the zoom, you get dizzy from waching nonstabilised
videorecordings.

A litle tip I learned attending a video class, on eavening school: The
bigger and heavier the camera is, the steadyer you can hold it, and pannings
dont get too fast. That's the main reasons, why the pros still uses
shouldermounted cameras ;o) And use a tripod as often as possible!

Tommy C





"donbutts"

Usenet Poster
remove.donneybutts@hotmail.com
Posted on:
Nov 8, 2007, 8:08 PM

Post #8 of 25 (44 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to "TOCA"] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
>
> A litle tip I learned attending a video class, on eavening school: The
> bigger and heavier the camera is, the steadyer you can hold it, and
> pannings dont get too fast. That's the main reasons, why the pros still
> uses shouldermounted cameras ;o) And use a tripod as often as possible!
>
> Tommy C
>
You just took me back to my broadcast course where we had big JVC KY2000's
( I think they called them)
on your shoulder ( 2 man team) and for an assignment they placed obstacles
on the floor and we had to
walk across the room videoing through the viewfinder and judged on the
still results.
Another assignment was to record a rail unit coming into the railway station
and then we ran across
the walkway bridge to the other side (the other guy carried the batteries
and leads and therefore connected)
in order to catch and film the unit leaving. We were judged both on
composition of the shots and whether there was
any movement or sound suggesting we were panting!! That was difficult!!


Butts




"TOCA"

Usenet Poster
Not@valid.com
Posted on:
Nov 9, 2007, 4:55 PM

Post #9 of 25 (43 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to "donbutts"] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"donbutts" <remove.donneybutts@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1qOYi.4683$Gy4.2115@newsfe24.lga...
>
>>
> You just took me back to my broadcast course where we had big JVC
> KY2000's ( I think they called them)
> on your shoulder ( 2 man team) and for an assignment they placed obstacles
> on the floor and we had to
> walk across the room videoing through the viewfinder and judged on the
> still results.
> Another assignment was to record a rail unit coming into the railway
> station and then we ran across
> the walkway bridge to the other side (the other guy carried the batteries
> and leads and therefore connected)
> in order to catch and film the unit leaving. We were judged both on
> composition of the shots and whether there was
> any movement or sound suggesting we were panting!! That was difficult!!
>
>
> Butts
>

Don't recall ther model, but it was JVC's and Yeah, they weighted a ton or
more :o/

But there were no suddent movements, making the viewers dizzy, because you
used your whole body as a stand, no onehanded shaky recordings on those
bricks.

I can still feel the pain, from a recording we made, where I had to film
someones feet, while he was walking down a hallway, so I was placed
underneath a shoppingcart (or what ever those chromed 4 wheled
shoppingbaskets in the supermarkets are called?), with half my torso over
the edge, without support, batteling to keep the camera vertikal for hours
on end, that was "fun" ;o)

The only downsite about attending such courses is, that you can never wach
other peoples hollyday videos again, without focusing on all the errors they
made ;o)

Tommy C





"donbutts"

Usenet Poster
remove.donneybutts@hotmail.com
Posted on:
Nov 9, 2007, 5:49 PM

Post #10 of 25 (42 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to "TOCA"] Not logged in -   Reply 

TOCO admits:

> I can still feel the pain, from a recording we made, where I had to film
> someones feet, so I was placed underneath a shoppingcart (or what ever
> those chromed 4 wheled shoppingbaskets in the supermarkets are called?),
> with half my torso over the edge, without support,

> batteling to keep the camera vertikal for hours on end, that was "fun" ;o)


I think I read all about that in the court reports column ...........
Wink)

Butts




"Chris Curtis"

Usenet Poster
chris@nospam.net
Posted on:
Nov 9, 2007, 5:50 PM

Post #11 of 25 (42 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to Iain Smith] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"Iain Smith" <iain.smith@2btinternet3.com> wrote in message
news:r8KdnYrJ5bsq667aRVnyhQA@bt.com...
> Now that our grandson is starting to do all sorts of interesting things
> I'd like to get a digital camcorder. Any recommendations from the usual
> brands - Sony, JVC, Panasonic, Canon etc? I was thinking that a hard drive
> (HDD) machine was the right way to go.
>
> In the bit of internet searching I've done there seem to be two recurring
> problems - battery duration and low level light performance. As a lot of
> shooting will be done indoors I don't want to get one that needs
> floodlights to operate.
>
> I'm looking to spend a max of GBP 300 (about US$ 600). However I realise
> that this may not have much meaning on an international NG such as this!
>
> Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
>
> Iain

Hi Iain

I'm amazed that anyone want to consider a hard drive model.
Frankly they are a potential recipe for disaster. If one dies on you (and we
all know that they they do), how much video have you lost.
A bit like the huge memory cards for still cameras. Small is better from a
data security view.

The tapes are cheap, tried and tested. You can copy them to your computer,
edit and save onto DVD. You then have the option to copy the edited version
in avi format back onto a tape.

Ignore the high zoom features (which seem to be the current selling point)
unless you are going to use a tripod. You'll never keep anything over 10x
still (and that's stretching it). The anti-shake works well at low
magnification but becomes increasingly ineffective at higher levels.

I have just bought another Sony which worked well on a recent vacation. I
have a Sony TRV33E which I was about to put on Ebay. It has had very little
use (no more than 10 hours) and I was looking for £95. It has a Sony carry
case, a couple of batteries and an extended warranty that doesn't expire
until next summer. I suspect its low light performance isn't as good as the
more recent models but I have never used it much in doors! Let me know if
you are interested and I'll get more precise information.

Chris




"TOCA"

Usenet Poster
Not@valid.com
Posted on:
Nov 9, 2007, 7:11 PM

Post #12 of 25 (42 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to "Chris Curtis"] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"Chris Curtis" <chris@nospam.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:W5adnVqvt4PfeananZ2dnUVZ8u2dnZ2d@pipex.net...
>
>
> I'm amazed that anyone want to consider a hard drive model.
> Frankly they are a potential recipe for disaster. If one dies on you (and
> we all know that they they do), how much video have you lost.
> A bit like the huge memory cards for still cameras. Small is better from a
> data security view.

You are a bit out of touch with real life here :o/
Harddrives do die, but seldom without some sort of warning, however there is
one issue about them: They don't take lightly on shakes and bumps, while
spinning.

Memorycards however, they dont die fast, they fade out verry slowly, after
10.000 recordings or more, plus they are verry ruggedised, some have
survived dynamite explosions, laundry, and worse. They don't care about
magnets or X-rays, in fact, if the card dies, chances are, that your camera
died first.
http://news.digitaltrends.com/news/story/5140/blast_destroys_camera_flash_card_survives


>
> The tapes are cheap, tried and tested. You can copy them to your computer,
> edit and save onto DVD. You then have the option to copy the edited
> version in avi format back onto a tape.

Tapes are oldschool, they get worn, eaven when not used, they can get
mingled up with the mechanics in the camera, destrying the whole tape, they
snap, and are sensitive to both magnets and X-rays, so don't bring them to
your flight as hand luggage.

>
> Ignore the high zoom features (which seem to be the current selling point)
> unless you are going to use a tripod. You'll never keep anything over 10x
> still (and that's stretching it). The anti-shake works well at low
> magnification but becomes increasingly ineffective at higher levels.

Unless you use a tripod, but yes they do try to outsell eachother on the
zoomfactor, just like still cameras try to outsell eachother on the
Megepixel race, instead of concentrating on important issues, like light
sensitivity, lense quallity, etc.

>
Tommy C




"Chris Curtis"

Usenet Poster
chris@nospam.net
Posted on:
Nov 10, 2007, 6:50 AM

Post #13 of 25 (42 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to "TOCA"] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"TOCA" <Not@valid.com> wrote in message
news:4734f702$0$15887$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk...
>
> "Chris Curtis" <chris@nospam.net> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:W5adnVqvt4PfeananZ2dnUVZ8u2dnZ2d@pipex.net...
>>
>>
>> I'm amazed that anyone want to consider a hard drive model.
>> Frankly they are a potential recipe for disaster. If one dies on you (and
>> we all know that they they do), how much video have you lost.
>> A bit like the huge memory cards for still cameras. Small is better from
>> a data security view.

Hi Tommy
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one!

> You are a bit out of touch with real life here :o/
> Harddrives do die, but seldom without some sort of warning, however there
> is one issue about them: They don't take lightly on shakes and bumps,
> while spinning.
>
> Memorycards however, they dont die fast, they fade out verry slowly, after
> 10.000 recordings or more, plus they are verry ruggedised, some have
> survived dynamite explosions, laundry, and worse. They don't care about
> magnets or X-rays, in fact, if the card dies, chances are, that your
> camera died first.
> http://news.digitaltrends.com/news/story/5140/blast_destroys_camera_flash_card_survives

I'm not denigrating memory cards as a medium. I'm merely saying that from a
data security point of view 2 cards are better than one.
I get 80 pictures from a 5megapixel camera on a 128mb card. This also
disciplines me to download them onto the computer frequently. I know people
with 1Gb or 2Gb cards who have never bothered. In my book that is a disaster
waiting to happen. You'll find this is a view shared by professionals though
in their case they are more likely to be talking about using 2 x 2Gb rather
than a single 4Gb!
The same with HDD camcorders. Experience tells me that the average user is
going to leave recordings in situ and a hard disk can hold a lot. As for
'bumps and shakes' a typical recording environment is more than likely to
provide some of those. And how many users do you see wearing a strap round
their neck? I saw someone drop their camcorder in Vegas the other week.

>> The tapes are cheap, tried and tested. You can copy them to your
>> computer, edit and save onto DVD. You then have the option to copy the
>> edited version in avi format back onto a tape.
>
> Tapes are oldschool, they get worn, eaven when not used, they can get
> mingled up with the mechanics in the camera, destrying the whole tape,
> they snap, and are sensitive to both magnets and X-rays, so don't bring
> them to your flight as hand luggage.

Now those comments ARE 'oldschool'!
We're not talking about vcr's! Just how much use do you think a camcorder
tape is going to get? I'm working on the premise that a user might just buy
more than one. They are not being subjected to huge amounts of rewinding,
etc. Sure, tape transport systems are highly mechanical but it is fair to
assume that they have been improved over the years. Certainly within my
experience and colleagues, I have never had of a problem. But if there was
the worst scenario is that you have lost an hours content. You seem to
forget that we are talking about the medium which is still considered one of
the safest for data backup in the corporate world. We use a modest 40 Gb
tape system on our network and the tapes (which are subjected to a lot of
stress) are extremely reliable. I recently restored from a ten year old one
with no problems. They may be technically sensitive to magnetic and x-rays
but my experience is that there is no affect on them from airport equipment.
Indeed 90% of my camcorder use has involved transporting them as hand
luggage through airports!

>
>>
>> Ignore the high zoom features (which seem to be the current selling
>> point) unless you are going to use a tripod. You'll never keep anything
>> over 10x still (and that's stretching it). The anti-shake works well at
>> low magnification but becomes increasingly ineffective at higher levels.
>
> Unless you use a tripod, but yes they do try to outsell eachother on the
> zoomfactor, just like still cameras try to outsell eachother on the
> Megepixel race, instead of concentrating on important issues, like light
> sensitivity, lense quallity, etc.

At least we agree there! I have to say the anti-shake on my new camcorder
has worked extremely well during my recent vacation to the States.

Regards
chris




"Quilljar"

Usenet Poster
Not@home.today
Posted on:
Nov 10, 2007, 8:51 AM

Post #14 of 25 (42 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to "The Old Bloke"] Not logged in -   Reply 

I use a little Sony Cybershot DSC -T3 for everything. The stills can be up
to 5Mb in size and with a 512 Mb memory stick I can record at least half an
hour of good quality movie. With a pocket full of memory sticks I could
probably rule the world. Who needs tapes? The movie option on the small
digital still cameras today, is far better than any of the older video
cameras I have had before, and I have been making movies since the silent
8mm days. There is no problem at all in buying Sony compatible accessories.

--
Yrs Quilly


"The Old Bloke" <le0pard32X@XgmailX.com> wrote in message
news:wpMYi.10116$CN4.9239@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> "Iain Smith" <iain.smith@2btinternet3.com> wrote in message
> news:r8KdnYrJ5bsq667aRVnyhQA@bt.com...
>> Now that our grandson is starting to do all sorts of interesting things
>> I'd like to get a digital camcorder. Any recommendations from the usual
>> brands - Sony, JVC, Panasonic, Canon etc? I was thinking that a hard
>> drive (HDD) machine was the right way to go.
>>
>> In the bit of internet searching I've done there seem to be two recurring
>> problems - battery duration and low level light performance. As a lot of
>> shooting will be done indoors I don't want to get one that needs
>> floodlights to operate.
>>
>> I'm looking to spend a max of GBP 300 (about US$ 600). However I realise
>> that this may not have much meaning on an international NG such as this!
>>
>> Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
>>
>> Iain
>
> I had had a few DV recorders. I prefer one which records to a tape. It's
> always easy to have a spare tape, but if you buy one with a HDD, once that
> HDD is full you have to find a PC to download.




"TOCA"

Usenet Poster
Not@valid.com
Posted on:
Nov 10, 2007, 9:21 AM

Post #15 of 25 (42 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to "Chris Curtis"] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"Chris Curtis" <chris@nospam.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:VO6dnYlELe13B6jaRVnyjgA@pipex.net...
>
> Hi Tommy
> I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one!

Well that's a start ;o)


>
>
> I'm not denigrating memory cards as a medium. I'm merely saying that from
> a data security point of view 2 cards are better than one.

Depends on how you use the camera :o/

> I get 80 pictures from a 5megapixel camera on a 128mb card. This also
> disciplines me to download them onto the computer frequently. I know
> people with 1Gb or 2Gb cards who have never bothered. In my book that is a
> disaster waiting to happen.

Agree, have heard about such people, but never met one. If I did, i would
sertainly advice him/her to do the right thing, transfer to harddrive, and
CD-R.

On the other hand, most people tends to make a lot of pictures (and videos),
and then storre them on the only harddrive, they have, and never think about
them, untill the PC breaks down, duno which is worse?


>You'll find this is a view shared by professionals though in their case
>they are more likely to be talking about using 2 x 2Gb rather than a single
>4Gb!

Again: Depends, if you are on a photoopp. then the bigger the better, hate
to fumble with cards in the midle of a shooting, if you're on vacation in
some tourrist trap, then smaller is better, and changing often is safer.
Loosing your camera in a caffé or shopping mall, is sad and annoying, but
loosing all the pictures aswell, is a total downer.


> The same with HDD camcorders. Experience tells me that the average user is
> going to leave recordings in situ and a hard disk can hold a lot. As for
> 'bumps and shakes' a typical recording environment is more than likely to
> provide some of those. And how many users do you see wearing a strap round
> their neck? I saw someone drop their camcorder in Vegas the other week.

Bet it was followed by some ecsottic words ;o)

>
>
> Now those comments ARE 'oldschool'!
> We're not talking about vcr's! Just how much use do you think a camcorder
> tape is going to get? I'm working on the premise that a user might just
> buy more than one. They are not being subjected to huge amounts of
> rewinding, etc. Sure, tape transport systems are highly mechanical but it
> is fair to assume that they have been improved over the years. Certainly
> within my experience and colleagues, I have never had of a problem. But if
> there was the worst scenario is that you have lost an hours content. You
> seem to forget that we are talking about the medium which is still
> considered one of the safest for data backup in the corporate world. We
> use a modest 40 Gb tape system on our network and the tapes (which are
> subjected to a lot of stress) are extremely reliable. I recently restored
> from a ten year old one with no problems. They may be technically
> sensitive to magnetic and x-rays but my experience is that there is no
> affect on them from airport equipment. Indeed 90% of my camcorder use has
> involved transporting them as hand luggage through airports!
>

The fact that "corporate world" still uses tapes for backup, is because it's
the technology they know, Backup harddrives are faster, and just as reliable
today, and the prices are getting close to equal.

I know that modern videotapes, are not Betamax, and they don't get as abused
as music casette tapes did, but tape is tape, it's still a string of thinn
plastic, with ironoxide painted to one side, and they still needs a lot of
moving parts in the camera or player, to work, I don't trust them. But for
the occasianal recording of the youngsters growing up, and a trip to
Disneyworld once a year, they are enough, for Joe Average, if he remembers
so transfer the recordings to his PC, as soon as he gets home, and make
backups to CD's or DVD's.

Tommy C




"Chris Curtis"

Usenet Poster
chris@nospam.net
Posted on:
Nov 10, 2007, 10:21 AM

Post #16 of 25 (42 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to "TOCA"] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"TOCA" <Not@valid.com> wrote in message
news:4735c264$0$15880$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk...
>
> "Chris Curtis" <chris@nospam.net> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:VO6dnYlELe13B6jaRVnyjgA@pipex.net...
>>
>> Hi Tommy
>> I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one!
>
> Well that's a start ;o)
>
>
>> I get 80 pictures from a 5megapixel camera on a 128mb card. This also
>> disciplines me to download them onto the computer frequently. I know
>> people with 1Gb or 2Gb cards who have never bothered. In my book that is
>> a disaster waiting to happen.
>
> Agree, have heard about such people, but never met one. If I did, i would
> sertainly advice him/her to do the right thing, transfer to harddrive, and
> CD-R.
>
> On the other hand, most people tends to make a lot of pictures (and
> videos), and then storre them on the only harddrive, they have, and never
> think about them, untill the PC breaks down, duno which is worse?

Equally tragic I guess!
I've lost count the number of people I've had to point out to, that haven't
got any back up routine in place for their pictures.

>
>
>>You'll find this is a view shared by professionals though in their case
>>they are more likely to be talking about using 2 x 2Gb rather than a
>>single 4Gb!
>
> Again: Depends, if you are on a photoopp. then the bigger the better, hate
> to fumble with cards in the midle of a shooting, if you're on vacation in
> some tourrist trap, then smaller is better, and changing often is safer.
> Loosing your camera in a caffé or shopping mall, is sad and annoying, but
> loosing all the pictures aswell, is a total downer.

On a longer vacation I will also get full cards transferred to Cd; there are
many places now offering this cheaply.
Though some might consider this is edging towards paranoia!

>
>> The same with HDD camcorders. Experience tells me that the average user
>> is going to leave recordings in situ and a hard disk can hold a lot. As
>> for 'bumps and shakes' a typical recording environment is more than
>> likely to provide some of those. And how many users do you see wearing a
>> strap round their neck? I saw someone drop their camcorder in Vegas the
>> other week.
>
> Bet it was followed by some ecsottic words ;o)

Indeed, though in this case it was onto carpet in one of the hotels!

>
>>
>>
>> Now those comments ARE 'oldschool'!
>> We're not talking about vcr's! Just how much use do you think a camcorder
>> tape is going to get? I'm working on the premise that a user might just
>> buy more than one. They are not being subjected to huge amounts of
>> rewinding, etc. Sure, tape transport systems are highly mechanical but it
>> is fair to assume that they have been improved over the years. Certainly
>> within my experience and colleagues, I have never had of a problem. But
>> if there was the worst scenario is that you have lost an hours content.
>> You seem to forget that we are talking about the medium which is still
>> considered one of the safest for data backup in the corporate world. We
>> use a modest 40 Gb tape system on our network and the tapes (which are
>> subjected to a lot of stress) are extremely reliable. I recently restored
>> from a ten year old one with no problems. They may be technically
>> sensitive to magnetic and x-rays but my experience is that there is no
>> affect on them from airport equipment. Indeed 90% of my camcorder use has
>> involved transporting them as hand luggage through airports!
>>
>
> The fact that "corporate world" still uses tapes for backup, is because
> it's the technology they know, Backup harddrives are faster, and just as
> reliable today, and the prices are getting close to equal.

I'm sure that hard drives will eventually take over and for large companies
with huge data backup requirements I'm sure this is often the case.
In fact some of our full backups now rely on external drives together with
the use of device imaging software.
However, our daily schedules rely on me carrying 15 small tapes in my
briefcase and because they are light, that is no problem.


> I know that modern videotapes, are not Betamax, and they don't get as
> abused as music casette tapes did, but tape is tape, it's still a string
> of thinn plastic, with ironoxide painted to one side, and they still needs
> a lot of moving parts in the camera or player, to work, I don't trust
> them. But for the occasianal recording of the youngsters growing up, and a
> trip to Disneyworld once a year, they are enough, for Joe Average, if he
> remembers so transfer the recordings to his PC, as soon as he gets home,
> and make backups to CD's or DVD's.
>
> Tommy C

I agree that type of use is important and suspect the most popular is the
one you have described.

Chris




"donbutts"

Usenet Poster
remove.donneybutts@hotmail.com
Posted on:
Nov 10, 2007, 3:40 PM

Post #17 of 25 (42 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to "Quilljar"] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"Quilljar" <Not@home.today> wrote in message
news:hdKdnU1qDrH7KqjanZ2dnUVZ8rKdnZ2d@bt.com...
>I use a little Sony Cybershot DSC -T3 for everything. The stills can be up
>to 5Mb in size and with a 512 Mb memory stick I can record at least half an
>hour of good quality movie. With a pocket full of memory sticks I could
>probably rule the world. Who needs tapes? The movie option on the small
>digital still cameras today, is far better than any of the older video
>cameras I have had before, and I have been making movies since the silent
>8mm days. There is no problem at all in buying Sony compatible accessories.
>
> --
> Yrs Quilly


I see SD cards down to $45 for 1 GB here. (Divide by 3 for sterling aprox.)
Chinese outlets.

I know stuff all about these cheap multi function camcorders. Major
retailers here choose not to stock them at present.

What's the detail like??

What's the downside if you just want to record holiday scenes

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Video-cameras/Video-cameras/auction-126554063.htm

and for interesting viewing

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Video-cameras/mcat-0124-0429-.htm

Butts




Vernon Balbert

Usenet Poster
vbalbert@gmail.nospam.com
Posted on:
Nov 10, 2007, 4:07 PM

Post #18 of 25 (42 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to "donbutts"] Not logged in -   Reply 

On 11/10/2007 12:40 PM, donbutts went clickity clack on the keyboard and
produced this interesting bit of text:

> I see SD cards down to $45 for 1 GB here. (Divide by 3 for sterling aprox.)
> Chinese outlets.

I wonder what that translates into US$. I recently bought a 2 GB micro
SD card for only US$25. It came with an adapter which allows me to plug
it into anything that accepts a standard SD card.

--
Joey, have you ever been to a Turkish prison?



"Quilljar"

Usenet Poster
Not@home.today
Posted on:
Nov 10, 2007, 5:07 PM

Post #19 of 25 (42 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to "donbutts"] Not logged in -   Reply 

They are not cheap Don, but they are truly multifunctional. Mine was NZ
equivalent of around $900 some two years ago. Look at the specs of the
latest on the net. I always buy Sony, but other similar ones are just as
good.

--
Yrs Quilly


"donbutts" <remove.donneybutts@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uHoZi.981$kl7.765@newsfe21.lga...
>
> "Quilljar" <Not@home.today> wrote in message
> news:hdKdnU1qDrH7KqjanZ2dnUVZ8rKdnZ2d@bt.com...
>>I use a little Sony Cybershot DSC -T3 for everything. The stills can be up
>>to 5Mb in size and with a 512 Mb memory stick I can record at least half
>>an hour of good quality movie. With a pocket full of memory sticks I could
>>probably rule the world. Who needs tapes? The movie option on the small
>>digital still cameras today, is far better than any of the older video
>>cameras I have had before, and I have been making movies since the silent
>>8mm days. There is no problem at all in buying Sony compatible
>>accessories.
>>
>> --
>> Yrs Quilly
>
>
> I see SD cards down to $45 for 1 GB here. (Divide by 3 for sterling
> aprox.) Chinese outlets.
>
> I know stuff all about these cheap multi function camcorders. Major
> retailers here choose not to stock them at present.
>
> What's the detail like??
>
> What's the downside if you just want to record holiday scenes
>
> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Video-cameras/Video-cameras/auction-126554063.htm
>
> and for interesting viewing
>
> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Video-cameras/mcat-0124-0429-.htm
>
> Butts
>




"TOCA"

Usenet Poster
Not@valid.com
Posted on:
Nov 10, 2007, 5:14 PM

Post #20 of 25 (42 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to "Chris Curtis"] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"Chris Curtis" <chris@nospam.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:D_2dnaiN9bvlUajaRVnygAA@pipex.net...
>
>
> Equally tragic I guess!
> I've lost count the number of people I've had to point out to, that
> haven't got any back up routine in place for their pictures.

Real men don't do backups, real men cry a lot ;o)

>
> On a longer vacation I will also get full cards transferred to Cd; there
> are many places now offering this cheaply.
> Though some might consider this is edging towards paranoia!

How about using a local Internet caffé, and upload the memorys to a online
storrage space, like Flickr or Putfile, then no pickpocket or thief can ruin
your entire day ;o)


Tommy C




"donbutts"

Usenet Poster
remove.donneybutts@hotmail.com
Posted on:
Nov 10, 2007, 8:26 PM

Post #21 of 25 (42 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to Vernon Balbert] Not logged in -   Reply 

I think I should have said 2gig @ $45 which is about $30 US



"Vernon Balbert" <vbalbert@gmail.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:s4pZi.2651$sm1.468@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
> On 11/10/2007 12:40 PM, donbutts went clickity clack on the keyboard and
> produced this interesting bit of text:
>
>> I see SD cards down to $45 for 1 GB here. (Divide by 3 for sterling
>> aprox.) Chinese outlets.
>
> I wonder what that translates into US$. I recently bought a 2 GB micro SD
> card for only US$25. It came with an adapter which allows me to plug it
> into anything that accepts a standard SD card.
>
> --
> Joey, have you ever been to a Turkish prison?




"donbutts"

Usenet Poster
remove.donneybutts@hotmail.com
Posted on:
Nov 10, 2007, 8:38 PM

Post #22 of 25 (42 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to "TOCA"] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"TOCA" <Not@valid.com> wrote in message
news:47362d00$0$15887$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk...
>
> "Chris Curtis" <chris@nospam.net> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:D_2dnaiN9bvlUajaRVnygAA@pipex.net...
>>
>>
>> Equally tragic I guess!
>> I've lost count the number of people I've had to point out to, that
>> haven't got any back up routine in place for their pictures.
>
> Real men don't do backups, real men cry a lot ;o)
>
>>
>> On a longer vacation I will also get full cards transferred to Cd; there
>> are many places now offering this cheaply.
>> Though some might consider this is edging towards paranoia!
>
> How about using a local Internet caffé, and upload the memorys to a online
> storrage space, like Flickr or Putfile, then no pickpocket or thief can
> ruin your entire day ;o)
>
>
> Tommy C
>
good idea.. but can you download back again using one of those streaming
programs?

Butts




"donbutts"

Usenet Poster
remove.donneybutts@hotmail.com
Posted on:
Nov 10, 2007, 8:42 PM

Post #23 of 25 (42 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to "Quilljar"] Not logged in -   Reply 

The real good brands are up to $1300 here but I was referring to those 4 to
8 X zoom digital ones generic brands listed per example.
Looking forward to winter?? Summer is here today albeit briefly.....
Thanks Quilly
Don


"Quilljar" <Not@home.today> wrote in message
news:HfidnZT40ZU8tqvanZ2dnUVZ8qOknZ2d@bt.com...
> They are not cheap Don, but they are truly multifunctional. Mine was NZ
> equivalent of around $900 some two years ago. Look at the specs of the
> latest on the net. I always buy Sony, but other similar ones are just as
> good.
>
> --
> Yrs Quilly
>
>
> "donbutts" <remove.donneybutts@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:uHoZi.981$kl7.765@newsfe21.lga...
>>
>> "Quilljar" <Not@home.today> wrote in message
>> news:hdKdnU1qDrH7KqjanZ2dnUVZ8rKdnZ2d@bt.com...
>>>I use a little Sony Cybershot DSC -T3 for everything. The stills can be
>>>up to 5Mb in size and with a 512 Mb memory stick I can record at least
>>>half an hour of good quality movie. With a pocket full of memory sticks I
>>>could probably rule the world. Who needs tapes? The movie option on the
>>>small digital still cameras today, is far better than any of the older
>>>video cameras I have had before, and I have been making movies since the
>>>silent 8mm days. There is no problem at all in buying Sony compatible
>>>accessories.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Yrs Quilly
>>
>>
>> I see SD cards down to $45 for 1 GB here. (Divide by 3 for sterling
>> aprox.) Chinese outlets.
>>
>> I know stuff all about these cheap multi function camcorders. Major
>> retailers here choose not to stock them at present.
>>
>> What's the detail like??
>>
>> What's the downside if you just want to record holiday scenes
>>
>> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Video-cameras/Video-cameras/auction-126554063.htm
>>
>> and for interesting viewing
>>
>> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Video-cameras/mcat-0124-0429-.htm
>>
>> Butts
>>
>




"TOCA"

Usenet Poster
Not@valid.com
Posted on:
Nov 11, 2007, 5:31 AM

Post #24 of 25 (42 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to "donbutts"] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"donbutts" <remove.donneybutts@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:72tZi.201$L86.60@newsfe16.lga...
>
> "TOCA" <Not@valid.com> wrote in message
> news:47362d00$0$15887$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk...
>>
>> "Chris Curtis" <chris@nospam.net> skrev i en meddelelse
>> news:D_2dnaiN9bvlUajaRVnygAA@pipex.net...
>>>
>>>
>>> Equally tragic I guess!
>>> I've lost count the number of people I've had to point out to, that
>>> haven't got any back up routine in place for their pictures.
>>
>> Real men don't do backups, real men cry a lot ;o)
>>
>>>
>>> On a longer vacation I will also get full cards transferred to Cd; there
>>> are many places now offering this cheaply.
>>> Though some might consider this is edging towards paranoia!
>>
>> How about using a local Internet caffé, and upload the memorys to a
>> online storrage space, like Flickr or Putfile, then no pickpocket or
>> thief can ruin your entire day ;o)
>>
>>
>> Tommy C
>>
> good idea.. but can you download back again using one of those streaming
> programs?
>
> Butts
>
Maybe not to the tape, but you can download everything to your puter, when
you get back home :o)

Tommy C




Iain Smith

Usenet Poster
iain.smith@2btinternet3.com
Posted on:
Nov 12, 2007, 12:46 PM

Post #25 of 25 (42 views)
Shortcut  

Re: OT (completely) Digital Camcorders [In reply to Iain Smith] Not logged in -   Reply 

Well thanks for all your replies. So many varied opinions! Guess I'll
have to do a bit more research and talk to my local camera shop! Smile

Iain



Would you like to reply to this thread?
Post your message here!  


 
 
Foxy Digital
[OT] Logitech Wingman Extreme Digital e Windows XP
Completely OT
Completely OT-Rugby news!
OT: Digital Photography/Camera

 Go to top