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Raising Seat and Changing POV

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"Leonard M. Wapner"

Usenet Poster
lwapner@roadrunner.com
Posted on:
Nov 23, 2007, 10:53 AM

Post #1 of 7 (44 views)
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Raising Seat and Changing POV Not logged in -   Reply 
Thanks again -

FS2002 default Cessna

I raise the seat to improve forward visibility of landscape when flying.
However, if I change POV or switch to spot plane view, the seat position
reverts back to its original lower position when I face front again.
Annoying! Is there some way to retain the newly raised seat position
without having to reset it each time I "look around"?

L




"Tony Sperling"

Usenet Poster
tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk
Posted on:
Nov 23, 2007, 2:44 PM

Post #2 of 7 (44 views)
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Re: Raising Seat and Changing POV [In reply to "Leonard M. Wapner"] Not logged in -   Reply 
I have found no apparent way of correcting this permanently. The only
possible solution, I think might be to study the SDK for the FS version and
maybe tweak the 'View' parameter in the panel.cfg.

The hard part of doing this will be to understand the 'X' / 'Y' positioning
and the philosophy that governs the movements in that system - I didn't find
it to be fully transparent.


Tony. . .


"Leonard M. Wapner" <lwapner@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
news:jp-dncGjWf3oatvanZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@adelphia.com...
> Thanks again -
>
> FS2002 default Cessna
>
> I raise the seat to improve forward visibility of landscape when flying.
> However, if I change POV or switch to spot plane view, the seat position
> reverts back to its original lower position when I face front again.
> Annoying! Is there some way to retain the newly raised seat position
> without having to reset it each time I "look around"?
>
> L
>




"scott s."

Usenet Poster
75270_3703a@csi.xcom
Posted on:
Nov 23, 2007, 3:34 PM

Post #3 of 7 (44 views)
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Re: Raising Seat and Changing POV [In reply to "Tony Sperling"] Not logged in -   Reply 
"Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in
news:ux8#OlgLIHA.5192@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:

> I have found no apparent way of correcting this permanently. The only
> possible solution, I think might be to study the SDK for the FS
> version and maybe tweak the 'View' parameter in the panel.cfg.
>
> The hard part of doing this will be to understand the 'X' / 'Y'
> positioning and the philosophy that governs the movements in that
> system - I didn't find it to be fully transparent.
>
>
> Tony. . .
>
>
> "Leonard M. Wapner" <lwapner@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
> news:jp-dncGjWf3oatvanZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@adelphia.com...
>> Thanks again -
>>
>> FS2002 default Cessna
>>
>> I raise the seat to improve forward visibility of landscape when
>> flying. However, if I change POV or switch to spot plane view, the
>> seat position reverts back to its original lower position when I face
>> front again. Annoying! Is there some way to retain the newly raised
>> seat position without having to reset it each time I "look around"?

First, it needs to be understood that in the 2d cockpit "raising
the seat" is not really raising the seat at all. What happens is
that you are rotating your eyepoint down, which moves the outside
view up. In 2d the panel always stays in the same apparent
position relative to head angle.

Raising the seat (raising the height of eye) is most apparent in
the vc, because the cockpit appears to move down as the eyepoint
moves up.

Thus the fix involves both variables. In each aircraft.cfg file
is the line:
[Views]
eyepoint=x,y,z

z is the height of the eyepoint above datum in feet. Making this
bigger moves the eyepoint up. When you do this, check the result
in the vc until you get it where you want it.

When you are happy, you can adjust the eyepoint rotation for 2d.
For this you open the panel.cfg file in the panel subfolder.
There should be a line:
[Views]
VIEW_FORWARD_DIR=p,b,r

p is the rotation up/down (pitch). IIRC bigger numbers rotate down.

there may also be (or you can add)
VIEW_FORWARD_ZOOM=

which you can play with. Try values around 0.8 +/-

Also you can take a look at
[Default View]
SIZE_Y=

which determines how much vertical screen space the outside view will
contain (to see, drag the 2d cockpit away and you will see the
bottom of the screen is black. What happens is the ouside view is
compressed vertically to fit within the SIZE_Y parameter. Compare
the effect by using the W key to switch the 2d cockpit off and on.
When the cockpit is mini-cockpit or off, the full screen is used
for the outside view and you can see the effect of the compression
from SIZE_Y).

scott s.
.



"Leonard M. Wapner"

Usenet Poster
lwapner@roadrunner.com
Posted on:
Nov 23, 2007, 5:32 PM

Post #4 of 7 (44 views)
Shortcut  

Re: Raising Seat and Changing POV [In reply to "scott s."] Not logged in -   Reply 
Thanks for all the info. I'll tweak the numbers and see what happens. I
really don't understand why MS didn't design things to afford a better
forward cockpit view. Maybe, in an actual plane of this type, that's just
the way it should be.

L


"scott s." <75270_3703a@csi.xcom> wrote in message
news:Xns99F16B98A29DA752703703acsicom@216.168.3.70...
> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in
> news:ux8#OlgLIHA.5192@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:
>
>> I have found no apparent way of correcting this permanently. The only
>> possible solution, I think might be to study the SDK for the FS
>> version and maybe tweak the 'View' parameter in the panel.cfg.
>>
>> The hard part of doing this will be to understand the 'X' / 'Y'
>> positioning and the philosophy that governs the movements in that
>> system - I didn't find it to be fully transparent.
>>
>>
>> Tony. . .
>>
>>
>> "Leonard M. Wapner" <lwapner@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
>> news:jp-dncGjWf3oatvanZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@adelphia.com...
>>> Thanks again -
>>>
>>> FS2002 default Cessna
>>>
>>> I raise the seat to improve forward visibility of landscape when
>>> flying. However, if I change POV or switch to spot plane view, the
>>> seat position reverts back to its original lower position when I face
>>> front again. Annoying! Is there some way to retain the newly raised
>>> seat position without having to reset it each time I "look around"?
>
> First, it needs to be understood that in the 2d cockpit "raising
> the seat" is not really raising the seat at all. What happens is
> that you are rotating your eyepoint down, which moves the outside
> view up. In 2d the panel always stays in the same apparent
> position relative to head angle.
>
> Raising the seat (raising the height of eye) is most apparent in
> the vc, because the cockpit appears to move down as the eyepoint
> moves up.
>
> Thus the fix involves both variables. In each aircraft.cfg file
> is the line:
> [Views]
> eyepoint=x,y,z
>
> z is the height of the eyepoint above datum in feet. Making this
> bigger moves the eyepoint up. When you do this, check the result
> in the vc until you get it where you want it.
>
> When you are happy, you can adjust the eyepoint rotation for 2d.
> For this you open the panel.cfg file in the panel subfolder.
> There should be a line:
> [Views]
> VIEW_FORWARD_DIR=p,b,r
>
> p is the rotation up/down (pitch). IIRC bigger numbers rotate down.
>
> there may also be (or you can add)
> VIEW_FORWARD_ZOOM=
>
> which you can play with. Try values around 0.8 +/-
>
> Also you can take a look at
> [Default View]
> SIZE_Y=
>
> which determines how much vertical screen space the outside view will
> contain (to see, drag the 2d cockpit away and you will see the
> bottom of the screen is black. What happens is the ouside view is
> compressed vertically to fit within the SIZE_Y parameter. Compare
> the effect by using the W key to switch the 2d cockpit off and on.
> When the cockpit is mini-cockpit or off, the full screen is used
> for the outside view and you can see the effect of the compression
> from SIZE_Y).
>
> scott s.
> .
>




"Tony Sperling"

Usenet Poster
tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk
Posted on:
Nov 24, 2007, 6:32 AM

Post #5 of 7 (44 views)
Shortcut  

Re: Raising Seat and Changing POV [In reply to "scott s."] Not logged in -   Reply 
Thank you very much Scott.

I find this extremely helpful. The SDK documentation goes through all of the
parts you need to understand this but I've not had the time to experiment
enough to grasp the underlying philosophy of it all. What disturbs me is
that, in the 2D panel, the pilot generally seems to have his eyepoint in
his navel-region.

This should be enough, that even I will understand it now!

I once downloaded a plane that had the navlights displaced to a distance
several feet outside the wingtip - I tried tweaking them back into place but
failed misserably there as well - could you by any chance explain the
parameters that are involved here equally well? No immediate hurry, just
curious.

Tony. . .


"scott s." <75270_3703a@csi.xcom> wrote in message
news:Xns99F16B98A29DA752703703acsicom@216.168.3.70...
> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in
> news:ux8#OlgLIHA.5192@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:
>
>> I have found no apparent way of correcting this permanently. The only
>> possible solution, I think might be to study the SDK for the FS
>> version and maybe tweak the 'View' parameter in the panel.cfg.
>>
>> The hard part of doing this will be to understand the 'X' / 'Y'
>> positioning and the philosophy that governs the movements in that
>> system - I didn't find it to be fully transparent.
>>
>>
>> Tony. . .
>>
>>
>> "Leonard M. Wapner" <lwapner@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
>> news:jp-dncGjWf3oatvanZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@adelphia.com...
>>> Thanks again -
>>>
>>> FS2002 default Cessna
>>>
>>> I raise the seat to improve forward visibility of landscape when
>>> flying. However, if I change POV or switch to spot plane view, the
>>> seat position reverts back to its original lower position when I face
>>> front again. Annoying! Is there some way to retain the newly raised
>>> seat position without having to reset it each time I "look around"?
>
> First, it needs to be understood that in the 2d cockpit "raising
> the seat" is not really raising the seat at all. What happens is
> that you are rotating your eyepoint down, which moves the outside
> view up. In 2d the panel always stays in the same apparent
> position relative to head angle.
>
> Raising the seat (raising the height of eye) is most apparent in
> the vc, because the cockpit appears to move down as the eyepoint
> moves up.
>
> Thus the fix involves both variables. In each aircraft.cfg file
> is the line:
> [Views]
> eyepoint=x,y,z
>
> z is the height of the eyepoint above datum in feet. Making this
> bigger moves the eyepoint up. When you do this, check the result
> in the vc until you get it where you want it.
>
> When you are happy, you can adjust the eyepoint rotation for 2d.
> For this you open the panel.cfg file in the panel subfolder.
> There should be a line:
> [Views]
> VIEW_FORWARD_DIR=p,b,r
>
> p is the rotation up/down (pitch). IIRC bigger numbers rotate down.
>
> there may also be (or you can add)
> VIEW_FORWARD_ZOOM=
>
> which you can play with. Try values around 0.8 +/-
>
> Also you can take a look at
> [Default View]
> SIZE_Y=
>
> which determines how much vertical screen space the outside view will
> contain (to see, drag the 2d cockpit away and you will see the
> bottom of the screen is black. What happens is the ouside view is
> compressed vertically to fit within the SIZE_Y parameter. Compare
> the effect by using the W key to switch the 2d cockpit off and on.
> When the cockpit is mini-cockpit or off, the full screen is used
> for the outside view and you can see the effect of the compression
> from SIZE_Y).
>
> scott s.
> .
>




"scott s."

Usenet Poster
75270_3703a@csi.xcom
Posted on:
Nov 24, 2007, 2:59 PM

Post #6 of 7 (44 views)
Shortcut  

Re: Raising Seat and Changing POV [In reply to "Tony Sperling"] Not logged in -   Reply 
"Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in
news:#ZfFo2oLIHA.1164@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:

> Thank you very much Scott.
>
> I find this extremely helpful. The SDK documentation goes through all
> of the parts you need to understand this but I've not had the time to
> experiment enough to grasp the underlying philosophy of it all. What
> disturbs me is that, in the 2D panel, the pilot generally seems to
> have his eyepoint in his navel-region.
>
> This should be enough, that even I will understand it now!
>
> I once downloaded a plane that had the navlights displaced to a
> distance several feet outside the wingtip - I tried tweaking them back
> into place but failed misserably there as well - could you by any
> chance explain the parameters that are involved here equally well? No
> immediate hurry, just curious.

You might want to go here:
http://www.aircraftmanager.com/index.php?cn=Download%20Area
and get aircraft container manager. The demo version only will show
texture paints for a couple of default aircraft, and won't let
you save, but it gives a visual view of all the various positions
that are set in aircraft.cfg.

If you use ACM, you can move things around visually and see the
results. But it helps to understand some concepts.

The visual model has its own reference frame originating at the
1/4 chord position. But, the positions in aircraft.cfg are listed
relative to the reference position
reference_datum_position = x,y,z
often you will see 0,0,0 used, but sometimes the x parameter
will be set so that the reference is at the nose or at the
firewall.
The next important position is the cg
empty_weight_CG_position = x,y,z
This is used in placing the model on the ground by
static_pitch=
static_cg_height=
These two are relative to the ground, not the reference point.
Everything else (contact points, lights, station weights)
then follow from this. They all use x,y,z positions in feet
from the reference point. But ACM makes it easy to do
without calculating and trial and error.

scott s.
.




"Tony Sperling"

Usenet Poster
tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk
Posted on:
Nov 24, 2007, 7:32 PM

Post #7 of 7 (44 views)
Shortcut  

Re: Raising Seat and Changing POV [In reply to "scott s."] Not logged in -   Reply 
Ah, I get it - a mystery wrapped up inside a riddle? I certainly will try to
have a look at things from ACM, a visual example may be just what I need.
Thanks!!!


Tony. . .


"scott s." <75270_3703a@csi.xcom> wrote in message
news:Xns99F265B7022E6752703703acsicom@216.168.3.70...
> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in
> news:#ZfFo2oLIHA.1164@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:
>
>> Thank you very much Scott.
>>
>> I find this extremely helpful. The SDK documentation goes through all
>> of the parts you need to understand this but I've not had the time to
>> experiment enough to grasp the underlying philosophy of it all. What
>> disturbs me is that, in the 2D panel, the pilot generally seems to
>> have his eyepoint in his navel-region.
>>
>> This should be enough, that even I will understand it now!
>>
>> I once downloaded a plane that had the navlights displaced to a
>> distance several feet outside the wingtip - I tried tweaking them back
>> into place but failed misserably there as well - could you by any
>> chance explain the parameters that are involved here equally well? No
>> immediate hurry, just curious.
>
> You might want to go here:
> http://www.aircraftmanager.com/index.php?cn=Download%20Area
> and get aircraft container manager. The demo version only will show
> texture paints for a couple of default aircraft, and won't let
> you save, but it gives a visual view of all the various positions
> that are set in aircraft.cfg.
>
> If you use ACM, you can move things around visually and see the
> results. But it helps to understand some concepts.
>
> The visual model has its own reference frame originating at the
> 1/4 chord position. But, the positions in aircraft.cfg are listed
> relative to the reference position
> reference_datum_position = x,y,z
> often you will see 0,0,0 used, but sometimes the x parameter
> will be set so that the reference is at the nose or at the
> firewall.
> The next important position is the cg
> empty_weight_CG_position = x,y,z
> This is used in placing the model on the ground by
> static_pitch=
> static_cg_height=
> These two are relative to the ground, not the reference point.
> Everything else (contact points, lights, station weights)
> then follow from this. They all use x,y,z positions in feet
> from the reference point. But ACM makes it easy to do
> without calculating and trial and error.
>
> scott s.
> .
>
>




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