Scary runway on Google Earth   
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Scary runway on Google Earth

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Martin C

Usenet Poster
mkcowley_remove_this_@optusnet.com.au
Posted on:
Nov 7, 2007, 5:39 PM

Post #1 of 14 (49 views)
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Scary runway on Google Earth Not logged in -   Reply 

Check out Gibraltar on Google Earth. Its runway has a regular road
crossing through the middle of it. If you use the slider to get a
horizontal view, the runway goes from sea level at the end to over
500' in the middle, according to the Google Earth data.

The DoD Enroute Flight Supplement shows the runway is really 15' MSL
with a dip to 8' at the 1000' mark from the 27 end. Severe turbulence
is caused by the proximity of the Rock of Gibraltar. I've never flown
there IRL, but I suspect that it could be an alarming experience.



"Quilljar"

Usenet Poster
Not@home.today
Posted on:
Nov 7, 2007, 6:03 PM

Post #2 of 14 (49 views)
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Re: Scary runway on Google Earth [In reply to Martin C] Not logged in -   Reply 

It is scary and the road is closed each time a landing or take-off occurs,
otherwise the traffic goes on. Mind you, this happens in a lot of airports.

--
Yrs Quilly





"TeeRee"

Usenet Poster
papacrazy59@hotmail.com
Posted on:
Nov 7, 2007, 11:55 PM

Post #3 of 14 (46 views)
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Re: Scary runway on Google Earth [In reply to "Quilljar"] Not logged in -   Reply 

One that I know of is Heidelberg AAF (ETIE)
There is a road across the runway and it has stop and go lights for the
cars.

"Quilljar" <Not@home.today> wrote in message
news:mK6dnf170_G02a_anZ2dnUVZ8tGqnZ2d@bt.com...
> It is scary and the road is closed each time a landing or take-off occurs,
> otherwise the traffic goes on. Mind you, this happens in a lot of
> airports.
>
> --
> Yrs Quilly
>
>




"Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris)"

Usenet Poster
cjibbotson@tiscali.co.uk
Posted on:
Nov 8, 2007, 5:14 AM

Post #4 of 14 (46 views)
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Re: Scary runway on Google Earth [In reply to Martin C] Not logged in -   Reply 

On Nov 7, 10:39 pm, Martin C <mkcowley_remove_th...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:
> Check out Gibraltar on Google Earth. Its runway has a regular road
> crossing through the middle of it. If you use the slider to get a
> horizontal view, the runway goes from sea level at the end to over
> 500' in the middle, according to the Google Earth data.
>
> The DoD Enroute Flight Supplement shows the runway is really 15' MSL
> with a dip to 8' at the 1000' mark from the 27 end. Severe turbulence
> is caused by the proximity of the Rock of Gibraltar. I've never flown
> there IRL, but I suspect that it could be an alarming experience.

The road is represented in Aerosoft's Gibraltar addon crossing the
runway as you accelerate down it.
Fortunately they disappear as you get close to them.

Ibby




"Ed Medlin"

Usenet Poster
ed@edmedlin.com
Posted on:
Nov 8, 2007, 7:05 AM

Post #5 of 14 (45 views)
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Re: Scary runway on Google Earth [In reply to Martin C] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"Martin C" <mkcowley_remove_this_@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:9se4j3tuc2422hq81edrnhmc8ibcg42ept@4ax.com...
> Check out Gibraltar on Google Earth. Its runway has a regular road
> crossing through the middle of it. If you use the slider to get a
> horizontal view, the runway goes from sea level at the end to over
> 500' in the middle, according to the Google Earth data.
>
> The DoD Enroute Flight Supplement shows the runway is really 15' MSL
> with a dip to 8' at the 1000' mark from the 27 end. Severe turbulence
> is caused by the proximity of the Rock of Gibraltar. I've never flown
> there IRL, but I suspect that it could be an alarming experience.

Try Homer Alaska.......No road, but what a landing........Smile Wind direction
doesn't matter, you must land uphill and take off down the hill to the
bay...


Ed




Tom Peel

Usenet Poster
erdontbelieveitttp@freenet.de
Posted on:
Nov 8, 2007, 2:41 PM

Post #6 of 14 (44 views)
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Re: Scary runway on Google Earth [In reply to Martin C] Not logged in -   Reply 

Martin C schrieb:
> Check out Gibraltar on Google Earth. Its runway has a regular road
> crossing through the middle of it. If you use the slider to get a
> horizontal view, the runway goes from sea level at the end to over
> 500' in the middle, according to the Google Earth data.
>
> The DoD Enroute Flight Supplement shows the runway is really 15' MSL
> with a dip to 8' at the 1000' mark from the 27 end. Severe turbulence
> is caused by the proximity of the Rock of Gibraltar. I've never flown
> there IRL, but I suspect that it could be an alarming experience.

The road is not a problem, obviously it gets closed for takeoff and
landings, but AFAIK there is still no instrument landing system.
The ICAO code is LXGB, which seems to reflect its location in political
no-man's land.
I located some charts here, dated 2005:
http://virtualskies.net/cvars/download/LXGB.pdf - makes interesting reading!

T.






Frank Stutzman

Usenet Poster
stutzman@skywagon.kjsl.com
Posted on:
Nov 8, 2007, 3:03 PM

Post #7 of 14 (44 views)
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Re: Scary runway on Google Earth [In reply to Tom Peel] Not logged in -   Reply 

Tom Peel <erdontbelieveitttp@freenet.de> wrote:

> The road is not a problem, obviously it gets closed for takeoff and
> landings, but AFAIK there is still no instrument landing system.


Whats scary about not having an ILS?

90% of the airplanes I fly into don't have an instrument approach, much
less an ILS.
--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Boise, ID



"TOCA"

Usenet Poster
Not@valid.com
Posted on:
Nov 8, 2007, 3:24 PM

Post #8 of 14 (44 views)
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Re: Scary runway on Google Earth [In reply to "Quilljar"] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"Quilljar" <Not@home.today> skrev i en meddelelse
news:mK6dnf170_G02a_anZ2dnUVZ8tGqnZ2d@bt.com...
> It is scary and the road is closed each time a landing or take-off occurs,
> otherwise the traffic goes on. Mind you, this happens in a lot of
> airports.
>
> --
> Yrs Quilly
>
>

And in a country where there are more cars, than can be fitted into the
roads at one time, you will need airports as buffer zones ;o)

It's more than scarry, when you think of how manny people, that are kille in
railroadcrossing accidents, because they didn't see the warning lights,
wonder how manny near misses, there have been to that sort of RW crossings?

Oh, and how does that concept apply to the new antiterror laws?

Tommy C





Tom Peel

Usenet Poster
erdontbelieveitttp@freenet.de
Posted on:
Nov 8, 2007, 4:26 PM

Post #9 of 14 (44 views)
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Re: Scary runway on Google Earth [In reply to Frank Stutzman] Not logged in -   Reply 

Frank Stutzman schrieb:
> Tom Peel <erdontbelieveitttp@freenet.de> wrote:
>
>> The road is not a problem, obviously it gets closed for takeoff and
>> landings, but AFAIK there is still no instrument landing system.
>
>
> Whats scary about not having an ILS?
>
I didn't say it was scary. It is however placing the public at risk to
operate scheduled flights into an airport with no ILS whatsoever.
> 90% of the airplanes I fly into don't have an instrument approach, much
> less an ILS.
Airplanes? I guess you mean airfields. The reason for concern in the
case of LXGB is the amount of heavy commercial scheduled traffic that
flies into the airport, given that it is a holiday destination, and that
the approach is particularly dangerous on account of the wind
conditions. You can see for yourself from the charts that traffic for
RWY9 is not allowed to overfly Spanish territory, and is forced to make
a tight visual 180 turn at low altitude- really an unacceptable
situation for an airport in the European community with scheduled
flights. There are of course lots of airports with only one ILS
approach, and visual approach and procedure turns are then needed under
unfavourable conditions, but these should be the exception. Only a few
years ago, a Crossair plane crashed at Zurich on a nighttime visual
approach to RWY 25. Noise abatement restrictions that had been forced
through by politicans before an ILS system could be installed for this
runway contributed in part to this fatal accident.

T.



Darius.Jedberg@gmail.com

Usenet Poster
Darius.Jedberg@gmail.com
Posted on:
Nov 9, 2007, 3:46 AM

Post #10 of 14 (44 views)
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Re: Scary runway on Google Earth [In reply to "TOCA"] Not logged in -   Reply 

On Nov 8, 9:24 pm, "TOCA" <N...@valid.com> wrote:

> It's more than scarry, when you think of how manny people, that are kille in
> railroadcrossing accidents, because they didn't see the warning lights,
> wonder how manny near misses, there have been to that sort of RW crossings?

> Tommy C


Near misses, at Gib. Essentially none. (see below).

You need to remember while the barriers and lights may be akin to a
railway crossing that is where the similarity ends. There is a full
and continuous police presence on both sides of the crossing. There
are spike strips accross the roads as appropriate. There is a heavily
armed antiterrorism presence on the field itself, just inside of the
barrier.

The security level always prevents incursion onto the runway *while it
is in use*.

You do get the occasional visiting tourist in a car hessitating at the
runway midway point while crossing wondering if they've just found a
motorway to turn right onto. (despite the signs) But they are rapidly
intercepted by the police and guided back onto the road.

However this is acceptable, given that the security of the runway
while people can cross is not in a raised state, the security state is
raised during runway operations then back down again.

If aircraft are on the ground they are held in a secure 'pen' which is
itself heavily guarded.

The only near miss I can thing of is when some gliders decided they
would land despite not having authorisation or notification. As such
the road was open, but they saw this and landed safely well within
half the length. So the only example of the danger is from aircraft
rather than the gound, and a landing aircraft runway incusion can
happen whether it is cars or planes using the runway on the ground.





"TOCA"

Usenet Poster
Not@valid.com
Posted on:
Nov 9, 2007, 4:34 PM

Post #11 of 14 (44 views)
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Re: Scary runway on Google Earth [In reply to Darius.Jedberg@gmail.com] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
<Darius.Jedberg@gmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1194597989.816960.23200@v3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 8, 9:24 pm, "TOCA" <N...@valid.com> wrote:
>
>> It's more than scarry, when you think of how manny people, that are kille
>> in
>> railroadcrossing accidents, because they didn't see the warning lights,
>> wonder how manny near misses, there have been to that sort of RW
>> crossings?
>
>> Tommy C
>
>
> Near misses, at Gib. Essentially none. (see below).
>

OK, sounds reassuring, just had my easyscarred hat on, and saw a wide open
gateway into disaster. Nice to know that eaven there, security is taken
serius :o)

Tommy C




Iain Smith

Usenet Poster
iain.smith@2btinternet3.com
Posted on:
Nov 10, 2007, 11:49 AM

Post #12 of 14 (44 views)
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Re: Scary runway on Google Earth [In reply to Tom Peel] Not logged in -   Reply 

Tom Peel wrote:

> You can see for yourself from the charts that traffic for
> RWY9 is not allowed to overfly Spanish territory,

Tom, your charts are out of date. This statement is not true since
September 2006. See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_Airport

Iain



Tom Peel

Usenet Poster
erdontbelieveitttp@freenet.de
Posted on:
Nov 11, 2007, 2:51 PM

Post #13 of 14 (42 views)
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Re: Scary runway on Google Earth [In reply to Iain Smith] Not logged in -   Reply 

Iain Smith schrieb:
> Tom Peel wrote:
>
>> You can see for yourself from the charts that traffic for RWY9 is not
>> allowed to overfly Spanish territory,
>
> Tom, your charts are out of date. This statement is not true since
> September 2006. See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_Airport
>
> Iain

Iain, thanks for the update. At least that crazy restriction has finally
been dropped. Do you know where we can get updated charts then? The only
information on Eurocontrol seems to be a brief summary of airport
facilities on the Spanish page - no charts.
http://worldaerodata.com/wad.cgi?id=GI75656&sch=LXGB gives much the same
information - and still no ILS, BTW

T.




"Iain Smith"

Usenet Poster
iainsmithdotrugbyatbtinternetdotcom
Posted on:
Nov 19, 2007, 4:36 PM

Post #14 of 14 (41 views)
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Re: Scary runway on Google Earth [In reply to Tom Peel] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"Tom Peel" <erdontbelieveitttp@freenet.de> wrote in message
news:5pp4pfFsb3qkU1@mid.individual.net...

> Do you know where we can get updated charts then? The only information on
> Eurocontrol seems to be a brief summary of airport facilities on the
> Spanish page - no charts.

Sorry for the delay in replying Tom. No I don't I'm afraid. Presumably they
have been published, although the speed at which bureaucrats move, one never
knows! Smile

Iain




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