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"CJM"

Usenet Poster
cjmnews@removeme-yahoo.co.uk
Posted on:
Jan 11, 2008, 5:05 AM

Post #1 of 27 (75 views)
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Upcoming Flight Sims? Not logged in -   Reply 

Is it me, or does this genre seem a little neglected these days?

Apart from FSX, there don't seem to be any modern flight-sims, specifically
combat flight-sims - I'm not an expert on the genre but I thought I would
have heard about anything new on the market. I think the most recent games
I've come across are the Falcon series and Lock-On.

When I started gaming in the early eighties, there were loads of flight-sims
around. Pretty crude by todays standards, but often good fun. I used to love
the career-based combat flight-sims like Gunship and F19 Stealth Fighter.
OK, a bit light on the simulation in some respects, but very absorbing.

Is there any future in this genre? Are there any new (good) flight sims in
the pipeline? Aren't we overdue an A-list title that uses our modern
hardware a bit better? Or is this well and truly a niche market these days.
Have we been shot down by the Wii generation?

CJM




"*^&%$$#*%!"

Usenet Poster
someone@somewhere.invalid
Posted on:
Jan 11, 2008, 9:50 AM

Post #2 of 27 (74 views)
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Re: Upcoming Flight Sims? [In reply to "CJM"] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"CJM" <cjmnews@removeme-yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5uotbhF1jb4prU1@mid.individual.net...
> Is it me, or does this genre seem a little neglected these days?
>
> Apart from FSX, there don't seem to be any modern flight-sims,
> specifically combat flight-sims - I'm not an expert on the genre but I
> thought I would have heard about anything new on the market. I think the
> most recent games I've come across are the Falcon series and Lock-On.
>
> When I started gaming in the early eighties, there were loads of
> flight-sims around. Pretty crude by todays standards, but often good fun.
> I used to love the career-based combat flight-sims like Gunship and F19
> Stealth Fighter. OK, a bit light on the simulation in some respects, but
> very absorbing.
>
> Is there any future in this genre? Are there any new (good) flight sims in
> the pipeline? Aren't we overdue an A-list title that uses our modern
> hardware a bit better? Or is this well and truly a niche market these
> days. Have we been shot down by the Wii generation?
>
> CJM

It's been that way for a few years now but there are some in development
still.

Black Shark - helicopter sim by Eagle Dynamics
Knights of the Sky - WWI sim
Jet Thunder - Falklands War
Storm of War: Battle of Britain - BoB sim from IL-2 developer
TK is working on another sim based on the same engine as all his other
sims - *yawn*
Xplane just had a new version come out




"Mark Gonzales"

Usenet Poster
enter_my_name@comcast.net
Posted on:
Jan 11, 2008, 7:53 PM

Post #3 of 27 (74 views)
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Re: Upcoming Flight Sims? [In reply to "CJM"] Not logged in -   Reply 

"CJM" <cjmnews@removeme-yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5uotbhF1jb4prU1@mid.individual.net...

> When I started gaming in the early eighties, there were loads of
> flight-sims around. Pretty crude by todays standards, but often good fun.
> I used to love the career-based combat flight-sims like Gunship and F19
> Stealth Fighter. OK, a bit light on the simulation in some respects, but
> very absorbing.

Since you mentioned F19 Stealth Fighter, the follow-up F-117 was my all-time
favorite flight sim...the stealthy deep penetration strikes! The closest
I've found in a recent sim is DID's (F-22) Total Air War, probably "light on
the simulation" to some and with mid-'90s graphics, but overall a very fun
feature-packed game, IMO. And it's being worked on by a small but active
community at SimHQ.
--


Mark




Andrew MacPherson

Usenet Poster
andrew.mcp@DELETETHISdsl.pipex.com
Posted on:
Jan 12, 2008, 4:30 AM

Post #4 of 27 (74 views)
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Re: Upcoming Flight Sims? [In reply to "CJM"] Not logged in -   Reply 

cjmnews@removeme-yahoo.co.uk (CJM) wrote:

> Is it me, or does this genre seem a little neglected these days?

It's not restin', it's dead!

> F19 Stealth Fighter

The damned game which first whetted my appetite for PC flight sims. It
has a lot to answer for. Smile

Andrew "Norwegian Blue" McP



"Mr. Sylvestre"

Usenet Poster
MrSylvestre@worldcompany
Posted on:
Jan 12, 2008, 6:02 AM

Post #5 of 27 (74 views)
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Re: Upcoming Flight Sims? [In reply to "Mark Gonzales"] Not logged in -   Reply 

When DID's Total Air War gets mentioned as "a recent sim", we know we
are in trouble Wink

Regards,
Mr. Sylvestre

Mark Gonzales wrote:
> "CJM" <cjmnews@removeme-yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:5uotbhF1jb4prU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>> When I started gaming in the early eighties, there were loads of
>> flight-sims around. Pretty crude by todays standards, but often good fun.
>> I used to love the career-based combat flight-sims like Gunship and F19
>> Stealth Fighter. OK, a bit light on the simulation in some respects, but
>> very absorbing.
>
> Since you mentioned F19 Stealth Fighter, the follow-up F-117 was my all-time
> favorite flight sim...the stealthy deep penetration strikes! The closest
> I've found in a recent sim is DID's (F-22) Total Air War, probably "light on
> the simulation" to some and with mid-'90s graphics, but overall a very fun
> feature-packed game, IMO. And it's being worked on by a small but active
> community at SimHQ.
> --
>
>
> Mark
>
>



Herhor

Usenet Poster
herhor_ANTYSPAM_@onet.eu
Posted on:
Jan 12, 2008, 4:26 PM

Post #6 of 27 (73 views)
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Re: Upcoming Flight Sims? [In reply to Andrew MacPherson] Not logged in -   Reply 

Andrew MacPherson pisze:
> cjmnews@removeme-yahoo.co.uk (CJM) wrote:
>
>> Is it me, or does this genre seem a little neglected these days?
>
> It's not restin', it's dead!
>

Why?



Mark

Usenet Poster
nospamplease@ask.com
Posted on:
Jan 12, 2008, 5:52 PM

Post #7 of 27 (72 views)
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Re: Upcoming Flight Sims? [In reply to Herhor] Not logged in -   Reply 

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 22:26:25 +0100, Herhor <herhor_ANTYSPAM_@onet.eu>
wrote:

>Andrew MacPherson pisze:
>> cjmnews@removeme-yahoo.co.uk (CJM) wrote:
>>
>>> Is it me, or does this genre seem a little neglected these days?
>>
>> It's not restin', it's dead!
>>
>
>Why?

Because the necessary attention span of over 30s to learn how to play
is hard to find these days..




"*^&%$$#*%!"

Usenet Poster
someone@somewhere.invalid
Posted on:
Jan 13, 2008, 12:54 AM

Post #8 of 27 (72 views)
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Re: Upcoming Flight Sims? [In reply to "Mr. Sylvestre"] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"Mr. Sylvestre" <MrSylvestre@worldcompany> wrote in message
news:47889e1e$0$22312$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
> When DID's Total Air War gets mentioned as "a recent sim", we know we are
> in trouble Wink
>
> Regards,
> Mr. Sylvestre

He's a late bloomer.




"Mark Gonzales"

Usenet Poster
enter_my_name@comcast.net
Posted on:
Jan 13, 2008, 1:31 AM

Post #9 of 27 (72 views)
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Re: Upcoming Flight Sims? [In reply to "*^&%$$#*%!"] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"*^&%$$#*%!" <someone@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message
news:IIhij.478$wx.234@pd7urf1no...
>
> "Mr. Sylvestre" <MrSylvestre@worldcompany> wrote in message
> news:47889e1e$0$22312$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
>> When DID's Total Air War gets mentioned as "a recent sim", we know we are
>> in trouble Wink
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mr. Sylvestre
>
> He's a late bloomer.

Nah, I should have said "most recent".
---


Mark




Andrew MacPherson

Usenet Poster
andrew.mcp@DELETETHISdsl.pipex.com
Posted on:
Jan 13, 2008, 2:13 AM

Post #10 of 27 (72 views)
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Re: Upcoming Flight Sims? [In reply to Mark] Not logged in -   Reply 

nospamplease@ask.com (Mark) wrote:

> Because the necessary attention span of over 30s to learn how to
> play is hard to find these days..

Actually I'm not sure my attention span is what it used to be! If it was
I might be more motivated by the (IMO) insane system modelling coming up
in Black Shark... if they ever finish it.

I console myself with the knowledge that I'm reading a lot more than
simming these days, so while I may miss the future I thought this genre
would have, I'm glad to have rediscovered one of life's real pleasures.

Andrew McP


"BobW"

Usenet Poster
bleew@columbus.dropthis.rr.com
Posted on:
Jan 13, 2008, 9:54 AM

Post #11 of 27 (72 views)
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Re: Upcoming Flight Sims? [In reply to Mark] Not logged in -   Reply 

 
"Mark" <nospamplease@ask.com> wrote in message
news:63hio3p6obg5sfrq8o97t59f0u83nr0kp3@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 22:26:25 +0100, Herhor <herhor_ANTYSPAM_@onet.eu>
> wrote:
>
>>Andrew MacPherson pisze:
>>> cjmnews@removeme-yahoo.co.uk (CJM) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is it me, or does this genre seem a little neglected these days?
>>>
>>> It's not restin', it's dead!
>>>
>>
>>Why?
>
> Because the necessary attention span of over 30s to learn how to play
> is hard to find these days..
>
That's why I stick to prop sims; none of those complicated radar and weapon
systems to learn. Just point and shoot!

Bob W.




tomcervo

Usenet Poster
tomcervo@aol.com
Posted on:
Jan 13, 2008, 8:50 PM

Post #12 of 27 (72 views)
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Re: Upcoming Flight Sims? [In reply to "CJM"] Not logged in -   Reply 

On Jan 11, 5:05�am, "CJM" <cjmn...@removeme-yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> When I started gaming in the early eighties, there were loads of flight-sims
> around. Pretty crude by todays standards, but often good fun. I used to love
> the career-based combat flight-sims like Gunship and F19 Stealth Fighter.
> OK, a bit light on the simulation in some respects, but very absorbing.
>
> Is there any future in this genre? Are there any new (good) flight sims in
> the pipeline? Aren't we overdue an A-list title that uses our modern
> hardware a bit better? Or is this well and truly a niche market these days.
> Have we been shot down by the Wii generation?

Look at what you played in the 90's--immersive, good looking things
like Fleet Defender that were game as much as sim. The disappearance
of the game-sim in favor of the "20 minute engine start up procedure"
sim is what pretty much killed flight sims.



Briarroot

Usenet Poster
Briarroot@gmail.com
Posted on:
Jan 14, 2008, 4:41 AM

Post #13 of 27 (72 views)
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tomcervo wrote:
>
> Look at what you played in the 90's--immersive, good looking things
> like Fleet Defender that were game as much as sim. The disappearance
> of the game-sim in favor of the "20 minute engine start up procedure"
> sim is what pretty much killed flight sims.

This is repeated so often that it seems to have become etched in
stone, yet nearly every one of those sims with "20 minute engine start
up procedure" had an Easy Mode which eliminated realism in favor of
simple fun.

IMO, the *real* reason that flight sims have nearly disappeared from
the marketplace is because they never sold in the kind numbers that
are now required to generate profits. The huge costs associated with
the development of modern PC games generally prevent niche games like
flight sims from ever turning a profit. Game developers really have
to *love* flight sims to even contemplate creating a new one and
that's not because the sims are too hard, it's because their appeal
has always been limited to a rather small pool of potential customers.

There is also the Longevity Factor to consider. Yes, I'm still
playing most of the flight sims I enjoyed in the 1990s. I don't need
a new one every year. Unlike instantly disposable FPS and RTS games,
flight sims have a looong life!


--
"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or
the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to
their own interest." - Adam Smith



tomcervo

Usenet Poster
tomcervo@aol.com
Posted on:
Jan 14, 2008, 8:10 PM

Post #14 of 27 (71 views)
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Re: Upcoming Flight Sims? [In reply to tomcervo] Not logged in -   Reply 

On Jan 14, 4:41�am, Briarroot <Briarr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is repeated so often that it seems to have become etched in
> stone, yet nearly every one of those sims with "20 minute engine start
> up procedure" had an Easy Mode which eliminated realism in favor of
> simple fun.

I think the old sims started Easy Mode on default, and left it up to
the simmer to ratchet up the realism. They also had a simple but
attractive dashboard to draw you in. The IL-2 series has a front end
designed by an IRS agent.

>
> There is also the Longevity Factor to consider. �Yes, I'm still
> playing most of the flight sims I enjoyed in the 1990s. �I don't need
> a new one every year. �Unlike instantly disposable FPS and RTS games,
> flight sims have a looong life!

Seen "PC Shooter" lately? That's all it is now, a lot of copy trying
to convince you that this month's model isn't just the same run-shoot-
boss battle as last month's. They're freaking out about Bioshock
because it's as good as System Shock, from 1995!



Briarroot

Usenet Poster
Briarroot@gmail.com
Posted on:
Jan 15, 2008, 4:45 AM

Post #15 of 27 (53 views)
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tomcervo wrote:
> On Jan 14, 4:41?am, Briarroot <Briarr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is repeated so often that it seems to have become etched in
>> stone, yet nearly every one of those sims with "20 minute engine start
>> up procedure" had an Easy Mode which eliminated realism in favor of
>> simple fun.
>
> I think the old sims started Easy Mode on default, and left it up to
> the simmer to ratchet up the realism. They also had a simple but
> attractive dashboard to draw you in. The IL-2 series has a front end
> designed by an IRS agent.
>

Yeah, not to mention a User Interface that seemingly has *no* design
whatsoever!

IL2 was the last sim I purchased. How many years ago was that? Wink


>> There is also the Longevity Factor to consider. Yes, I'm still
>> playing most of the flight sims I enjoyed in the 1990s. I don't need
>> a new one every year. Unlike instantly disposable FPS and RTS games,
>> flight sims have a looong life!
>
> Seen "PC Shooter" lately? That's all it is now, a lot of copy trying
> to convince you that this month's model isn't just the same run-shoot-
> boss battle as last month's. They're freaking out about Bioshock
> because it's as good as System Shock, from 1995!
>

My point is shooters are disposable, flight sims generally stay on our
hard drives for *years* not months.

Flight sims haven't been "killed" by anything within the sims
themselves, they've been killed by the tremendously increased costs of
development for *all* games. They always sold to a tiny market, but
10 or 15 years ago when development costs were so much less than they
are now, that market was enough to generate a profit for a successful
flight sim. There might be just as many flight sim fans today as
there were back then, but we've become buried under an avalanche of
millions of new PC gamers whose interest in the genre will never match
our own, no matter how simple the sims get. As far as the major
developers are concerned, PC flight sim fans are simply too few in
number to bother with now. If the cost of developing a realistic
flight sim and a typical shooter are the same, but the sim has a
potential market saturation point of only 100,000 while the shooter's
is 2,000.000, which product do you think they're going to pursue?


--
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the
blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of
misery." - Winston Churchill



"*^&%$$#*%!"

Usenet Poster
someone@somewhere.invalid
Posted on:
Jan 15, 2008, 5:12 AM

Post #16 of 27 (53 views)
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"Andrew MacPherson" <andrew.mcp@DELETETHISdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:memo.20080113071348.3696A@address_disguised.address_disguised...
> I console myself with the knowledge that I'm reading a lot more than
> simming these days, so while I may miss the future I thought this genre
> would have, I'm glad to have rediscovered one of life's real pleasures.

I can't pick up a book and read any more. Two pages in and I zonk out. TV
has the same affect on me. Only by being attached to my PC and doing stuff
on it can I keep my brain active enough to stay awake. Maybe this is how
humans started to evolve into cyborgs.




"*^&%$$#*%!"

Usenet Poster
someone@somewhere.invalid
Posted on:
Jan 15, 2008, 5:18 AM

Post #17 of 27 (53 views)
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"tomcervo" <tomcervo@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5122f739-5ca0-4f75-a549-2641af3b7ff9@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 11, 5:05�am, "CJM" <cjmn...@removeme-yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>The disappearance
of the game-sim in favor of the "20 minute engine start up procedure"
sim is what pretty much killed flight sims.

Bollocks. Only F4.0 has such a feature and that was added by a mod which was
done by fans of the game, and it is purely optional too. What killed the
genre is lack of funding because flight-sims don't make enough bucks to buy
everyone a Ferrari. Hopefully by now they have learned their lesson and
realize that dumbed down flight *games* make even less. Only people who will
make good flight sims from now on are people who love the genre. And guess
what? They are all hardcore about detail in a flight sim too.




"*^&%$$#*%!"

Usenet Poster
someone@somewhere.invalid
Posted on:
Jan 15, 2008, 5:22 AM

Post #18 of 27 (53 views)
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"tomcervo" <tomcervo@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7786c174-0ade-466d-8aac-16f9d093c3a6@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
I think the old sims started Easy Mode on default, and left it up to
the simmer to ratchet up the realism. They also had a simple but
attractive dashboard to draw you in. The IL-2 series has a front end
designed by an IRS agent.

Me thinks you look at the past through rose colored glasses.




"*^&%$$#*%!"

Usenet Poster
someone@somewhere.invalid
Posted on:
Jan 15, 2008, 5:27 AM

Post #19 of 27 (53 views)
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"Briarroot" <Briarroot@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:13op0dgkrd9jiee@corp.supernews.com...
> Flight sims haven't been "killed" by anything within the sims themselves,
> they've been killed by the tremendously increased costs of development for
> *all* games. They always sold to a tiny market, but 10 or 15 years ago
> when development costs were so much less than they are now, that market
> was enough to generate a profit for a successful flight sim. There might
> be just as many flight sim fans today as there were back then, but we've
> become buried under an avalanche of millions of new PC gamers whose
> interest in the genre will never match our own, no matter how simple the
> sims get. As far as the major developers are concerned, PC flight sim
> fans are simply too few in number to bother with now. If the cost of
> developing a realistic flight sim and a typical shooter are the same, but
> the sim has a potential market saturation point of only 100,000 while the
> shooter's is 2,000.000, which product do you think they're going to
> pursue?

Yep, you understand the situation perfectly. Then we have people like Tom
Cervo and Denny Atkin who like to place the blame on us gamers for being too
demanding of the genre. Well, I would rather have no more flight sims than
some pathetic arcade game posing as a flight sim. But it ain't all that bad
because there are a few non-arcade flight sims in development right now. I'm
patient.




Briarroot

Usenet Poster
Briarroot@gmail.com
Posted on:
Jan 15, 2008, 10:26 PM

Post #20 of 27 (52 views)
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Re: Upcoming Flight Sims? [In reply to "*^&%$$#*%!"] Not logged in -   Reply 

*^&%$$#*%! wrote:
>
> "Briarroot" <Briarroot@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:13op0dgkrd9jiee@corp.supernews.com...
>> Flight sims haven't been "killed" by anything within the sims
>> themselves, they've been killed by the tremendously increased costs of
>> development for *all* games. They always sold to a tiny market, but
>> 10 or 15 years ago when development costs were so much less than they
>> are now, that market was enough to generate a profit for a successful
>> flight sim. There might be just as many flight sim fans today as
>> there were back then, but we've become buried under an avalanche of
>> millions of new PC gamers whose interest in the genre will never match
>> our own, no matter how simple the sims get. As far as the major
>> developers are concerned, PC flight sim fans are simply too few in
>> number to bother with now. If the cost of developing a realistic
>> flight sim and a typical shooter are the same, but the sim has a
>> potential market saturation point of only 100,000 while the shooter's
>> is 2,000.000, which product do you think they're going to pursue?
>
> Yep, you understand the situation perfectly. Then we have people like
> Tom Cervo and Denny Atkin who like to place the blame on us gamers for
> being too demanding of the genre. Well, I would rather have no more
> flight sims than some pathetic arcade game posing as a flight sim. But
> it ain't all that bad because there are a few non-arcade flight sims in
> development right now. I'm patient.

One exception is Microsoft Flight Simulator, which if what I've read
is true, sells millions of copies. I suspect, however, that the vast
majority of those buyers spend very little time with it, while the
number of hard-core aficionados who actually know the sim well and who
download every add-on and fan mod is very small.


--
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the
blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of
misery." - Winston Churchill



Mitchell Holman

Usenet Poster
Noemailplease@comcast.com
Posted on:
Jan 15, 2008, 11:08 PM

Post #21 of 27 (52 views)
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Re: Upcoming Flight Sims? [In reply to "Mark Gonzales"] Not logged in -   Reply 

"Mark Gonzales" <enter_my_name@comcast.net> wrote in
news:5eadnY9dVMzrkhXanZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@comcast.com:

> "CJM" <cjmnews@removeme-yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:5uotbhF1jb4prU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>> When I started gaming in the early eighties, there were loads of
>> flight-sims around. Pretty crude by todays standards, but often good
>> fun. I used to love the career-based combat flight-sims like Gunship
>> and F19 Stealth Fighter. OK, a bit light on the simulation in some
>> respects, but very absorbing.
>
> Since you mentioned F19 Stealth Fighter, the follow-up F-117 was my
> all-time favorite flight sim...the stealthy deep penetration strikes!


DOS games seemed so much more entertaining.





tomcervo

Usenet Poster
tomcervo@aol.com
Posted on:
Jan 15, 2008, 11:55 PM

Post #22 of 27 (52 views)
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On Jan 15, 5:27�am, "*^&%$$#*%!" <some...@somewhere.invalid> wrote:
> Yep, you understand the situation perfectly. Then we have people like Tom
> Cervo and Denny Atkin who like to place the blame on us gamers for being too
> demanding of the genre.

Good company. Thanks.

> Well, I would rather have no more flight sims than
> some pathetic arcade game posing as a flight sim.

Define "arcade". Remember that every time that someone who's flown the
real thing in service tries a sim of same, he inevitably finds nothing
but the instruments to compare to the real thing. Real flying is a
total sensory experience that can not be simulated on a computer. It's
all "arcade", but some try more than others.

> But it ain't all that bad because there are a few non-arcade flight sims in development right now. I'm patient.

Me too. I'm still waiting for "Flying Nightmares II".




Mitchell Holman

Usenet Poster
Noemailplease@comcast.com
Posted on:
Jan 16, 2008, 10:48 PM

Post #23 of 27 (52 views)
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Re: Upcoming Flight Sims? [In reply to tomcervo] Not logged in -   Reply 

tomcervo <tomcervo@aol.com> wrote in news:b26ece01-b09b-41cb-aaf6-
c2f54adb4b78@v29g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

> On Jan 15, 5:27�am, "*^&%$$#*%!" <some...@somewhere.invalid> wrote:
>> Yep, you understand the situation perfectly. Then we have people like
Tom
>> Cervo and Denny Atkin who like to place the blame on us gamers for being
t
> oo
>> demanding of the genre.
>
> Good company. Thanks.
>
>> Well, I would rather have no more flight sims than
>> some pathetic arcade game posing as a flight sim.
>
> Define "arcade". Remember that every time that someone who's flown the
> real thing in service tries a sim of same, he inevitably finds nothing
> but the instruments to compare to the real thing. Real flying is a
> total sensory experience that can not be simulated on a computer. It's
> all "arcade", but some try more than others.


Real flying has its drawbacks as well. There is a lot
of truth in the saying that flying "hour upon hour of
tedious bordom interspaced with moments of sheer terror".

Let's hear it for "arcade" games that have all the
flying without the boredom.











Surfer

Usenet Poster
philkw@comcast.net
Posted on:
Jan 18, 2008, 1:01 AM

Post #24 of 27 (43 views)
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Re: Upcoming Flight Sims? [In reply to tomcervo] Not logged in -   Reply 

In article <b26ece01-b09b-41cb-aaf6-c2f54adb4b78
@v29g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, tomcervo@aol.com says...

> Me too. I'm still waiting for "Flying Nightmares II".

Personally...

...I'd love to see a TORNADO 2.0 and a brand spank'in new look at a
Raptor-based sim.

-Surfer



tomcervo

Usenet Poster
tomcervo@aol.com
Posted on:
Jan 18, 2008, 8:27 AM

Post #25 of 27 (42 views)
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Re: Upcoming Flight Sims? [In reply to tomcervo] Not logged in -   Reply 

On Jan 18, 1:02�am, Surfer <phi...@comcast.net> wrote:
> In article <b26ece01-b09b-41cb-aaf6-c2f54adb4b78
> @v29g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, tomce...@aol.com says...
>
> > Me too. I'm still waiting for "Flying Nightmares II".
>
> Personally...
>
> ...I'd love to see a TORNADO 2.0 and a brand spank'in new look at a
> Raptor-based sim.

There's part of the problem too. Back in the late 90's DI was one of
the better sim companies. But they followed up Tornado with a Falcon
sim--gee, not many of them around--and their next effort was an FA-18
sim, the same quarter that Jane's released theirs.
Tornado 2, or a Harrier sim or a Eurofighter sim, all UK AC, would
have been a shrewder choice than either of theirs, but somebody wanted
to crack the US market. Their best seller in the US probably remains
Tornado.
As well, DISH failed to include a dynamic campaign, a hallmark of
their earlier work--there was even a blank slot for it in the
interface, but the suits wanted it out by X-Day, rather than when it
was ready. THAT attitude, as much or more than anything else, was a
sim-killer: unready for release software. Why pay to test betas when
the Falcon mod community is more trustworthy?



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